New crime: being sort of swarthy while using an iPod | 65 comments (65 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

You write in your DKos diary (which you should cross-post here)

I lived (briefly) in Spain in 1971 when Franco was still in power. I later had many friends who fled from Pinochet for their lives. So I have some experience of what I speak of here.

See? That is the problem. Americans by and large have no living memory of government oppression. They can't relate. That always happens to others. It can't happen there. They're upstanding individuals. They pay their taxes.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 at 07:36:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when will it end (4.00 / 4)

I told several of my friends: there is a "smell" you recognize. The word "fascism" is too precise; it's brute strength, raw power, hatred, greed, the strong preying on the weak.

It's ugly, atavistic, transcends politics. It doesn't take much to resurface. Look at East Germany. You still smell it in Spain, parts of Spain, if you're really attuned. They won't tell you, but there's still an awful number of people who LIKE Franco.

by Lupin on Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 at 08:07:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when will it end (none / 0)

That description just made me shiver. When I run into it, I have an urge to back up against a solid wall, in a fight-or-flight second.

It is a very strong sensation, but I have fine-tuned it to differentiate between my own memories of francoism, or current right-wing robotics, in various combinations with ignorance, old rage, sexism, or pure envy.

I do not see the numbers you speak about, in any circles in Spain. You may get that sense from "Legionarios de Cristo" or gangs of "ultras" using fascist and nazi insignia, but I think the rest is a new form ugliism.

It has been 30 years, so anyone younger barely knows anything and the people that lived the civil war 1936-39 now speak up from either camp, mostly to express sorrow. People have moved on to consumerism.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 at 06:08:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when will it end (none / 0)

Having spent 6 years abroad I'm a little out of touch, and it seems that the PP is veering towards the far right (demonstrating against peace, gay rights and self-government), and that the sindicato del crimen is once again up to the same shenanigans they tried in 1993-6. Libertad Digital is friggin' scary.

When I was 12, some of my classmates were being socialised into post-francoism. Not pretty already then. A few years later you could see all the pijos my age with theit white or deep blue polo shirts with the Spanish flag around the rim of the neck. I was born the day after Franco died, and I don't think people my age have really moved on. Or maybe I just associated with political nutjobs all my life.

How old are you, if you don't mind me asking?

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 at 06:19:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when will it end (none / 1)

I´m 55 and grew up in the calmer, rigidity years, but the authoritarianism was from all angles: government, administration, police, church, school and family.

I was thrown out of school for 3 months for setting off an alarm clock in a wastepaper basket. I thought my life was over.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 at 06:51:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when will it end (none / 1)

You may enjoy this bulletin
http://tinyurl.com/fomyh

I am working on a new entry on the latest PP nonsense about boric acid, which is turning into a saga. I get the sense that belonging to the PP has been a status symbol for the new rich, but they are the extreme-right now and hopefully people will catch on slowly.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 at 07:23:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when will it end (none / 0)

I tried to get people from Escolar.net to come over and summarize the Pezones Negros saga, but they wouldn't do it.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 3rd, 2006 at 03:00:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when will it end (none / 0)

I read in my local rag LA DEPECHE that recently when there was a poll in Spain about what to do about the victims of Franco, about 25% or 35% of the respondents expressed a favorable impression about Franco. I don't recall the article, just the general idea I got from reading it. You may know more about the subjects.

My friends tend to hail from Barcelona or the Asturias and they all hate Franco, but in the South, I think if you talk to the older generation, and they trust you, you get a more mixed message.

Have you read Carlos Gimenez' PARACUELLOS series?

by Lupin on Tue Oct 3rd, 2006 at 06:17:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when will it end (none / 0)

See Spanish Civil War reparations by whataboutbob on August 2nd, 2006.

People from Asturias might remember the fact that Franco ws the general in charge of putting down the labout unrest in the mining regions of Asturias in 1934. A good dry run to get the troops used to turning on their fellow citizens.

Catalans, of course, resent Franco for abolishing the Generalitat and suppressing the Catalan language.

Madrid was laid siege and bombed for almost 3 years, but regrettably the right wing is strong there. What a shame.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 3rd, 2006 at 06:32:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when will it end (4.00 / 3)

There are quite a few of my acquaintances who smell the odor to which Lupin refers. Most of them either had families in the holocaust or were second generation Americans who had a family history of authoritarian governments. Tellingly, about half of them have emigrated and a lot of the others are seriously considering it.
Other people I know think the rest of us are paranoid but when you confront them with things like, "the vice-president shot someone in the head and the victim had to apologise," or, "what about those detention camps they're building outside of town?" they just let their eyes slide off and look in a corner. That expression they get on their face scares me more than any right wing nut ever could.
Would the military ever come into play? There are some crazy commanders, and I personally know a bunch of very crazy enlistees, but I think that the military would be more likely to split and fight among themselves than the general populace would. Just guessing though.

by northsylvania on Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 at 11:10:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

New crime: being sort of swarthy while using an iPod | 65 comments (65 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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