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In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Oct 31st, 2006 at 10:44:52 AM EST
You muckraker you ;-P

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 31st, 2006 at 11:28:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On today's menu we have a choice between believers in magic bullets or the mad-max-civilisation-is-doomed-survivalist crowd.

Depressing.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Oct 31st, 2006 at 12:09:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is possible that the rural/suburban population in the US faces such a choice.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 31st, 2006 at 12:10:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Only if they choose not to make any better choices, surely?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Oct 31st, 2006 at 12:14:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Most of the problems in the American suburbs can be dealt with by lowering living standards a bit as rdf suggested. For example putting two families in one McMansion and leaving 50% of the suburban infrastructure to rot. We can't sustain all those roads even today. Both people "for and against" peak oil like to harp on the "unwillingness" of the American public to engage in social change as my above example would require. Of course when economic necessity dictates it change will absolutely happen. Not many Americans are willing to die to save the suburbs.

Actually, in a scenario where oil production is really on the decline, American suburbs in the midwest might not be such a terrible place to be, as they are all adjacent to extensive farmland.

In a centuries-long energy crisis I don't know if I'd prefer to be living in the US or Europe - both face problems that look unsolvable today. If anything I'd prefer to be rich.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Oct 31st, 2006 at 01:22:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But all that vast expanse of farms require inputs of fertilizer, herbicide, pesticide, and fuel to run, all petrochemical.

Without cheap energy those 1,000 acre (404 hectare) farms are just big weed patches.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 31st, 2006 at 11:56:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They are most certainly not weed patches - they were farmed long before fertilizer was available. The yield will simply go down.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Wed Nov 1st, 2006 at 12:32:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They'll need more people though - or much smarter machinery.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Nov 1st, 2006 at 12:54:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Right. Ultimately all farming will face the same problem.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Wed Nov 1st, 2006 at 01:13:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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