"The Germans to the Front!" | 62 comments (62 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: "The Germans to the Front!" (none / 1)

We are getting back to that culture of uniformity and death.

Or is it that there is always a tendency (in all of us? Not the zen members of the human race, but are we zen?) and anyway, maybe it's a permanent fight, a process, a part of life, so you're right, but let us endlessly kill less people for less ineffectual and dangerous reasons...

Great diary! I believe the nation state, as a concept, is dead. But the future then lies in larger or smaller, or both, but not the nation state, and what percentage of humans primarily identify with the nation, as opposed to where they grew up, or where they live, or where they have visited, or the whole planet, or even the universe?

Yadda yadda! The nation state has lost power and influence, and nation blocs are taking over. Germany can't be alone...can it? Is it possible for regional non-national groupings to thrive? How about Scandinavia? Is that regional area thriving?

Could Etopia thrive? A few square kilometres? Is that enough land?

And can any of us thrive when jewish teenagers wear the israeli flag over their shoulders at Auschwitz?

nanne: I was in Auschwitz yesterday & there was a group of Jewish teenagers (17-18 yrs old, I'd guess) in white and blue dress, many with the flag of Israel draped over their shoulders.

Was it Sven who wrote, "Yes, human behaviour has been badly in error in the ways that you speak for at least 6,000 years. Isn't that all the more reason to change it now?"

Maybe I misquoted ;)

Anyways, a great diary, jandsm.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Nov 1st, 2006 at 06:17:57 PM EST

Re: "The Germans to the Front!" (none / 0)

And can any of us thrive when jewish teenagers wear the israeli flag over their shoulders at Auschwitz?

Well, I didn't mean to be that dramatic. The holocaust is a central part of the Israeli national identity. For these kids, I imagine, Auschwitz is almost literally the ashes upon which their country was built -- the main raison d'être for the state Israel. The personal, national, moral and historical elements are all mixed.

They might not take too kindly to the Bundeswehr, though, especially when it is near their border. I don't think that the personal feelings of Israeli soldiers were considered by the German government, because the topic might be taboo. In some ways it presupposes a lack of professionalism on part of the IDF. But it's dangerous to just assume that Israeli pilots won't be more trigger happy when it comes to the German army in particular.

Israel is of concern to our well-being because it is a state with nuclear weapons that has volatile relations with its neighbours, some of whom are the main sources for the oil that drives our economy. That is a real threat. Otherwise Israel matters little to our own well-being.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu Nov 2nd, 2006 at 04:01:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "The Germans to the Front!" (4.00 / 4)

Writing from Italy, which together with France spearheaded the drive for European troops under UN mandate (and NOT under NATO i.e. US command!) to provide a peacekeeping buffer force in Lebanon, I'd like to note that around here there was enormous support for this operation even/especially from the normally pacifist leftwing parties, as the reason for sending in these troops was seen NOT as "securitizing Israel" but as the only way of defending Lebanese sovereignty - to STOP Israel's murderous bombing and invasion of "our Mediterranean neighbour" Lebanon, which was pleading desperately for European and Muslim forces to save it from further bombings and yet another Israeli invasion!

"Ignoring moralities is always undesirable, but doing so systematically is really worrisome." Mohammed Khatami

by eternalcityblues (parvati_roma aaaat libero.it) on Thu Nov 2nd, 2006 at 09:54:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "The Germans to the Front!" (none / 1)

The force was to be entirely stationed in Lebanon, so unless the Israelis were already planning on invading Lebanon again there would be no reason for them to even meet German troops.
Slightly off topic why did the buffer zone not extend into the territory of the aggressor? That is a question that has never even been addressed, and which may be a slight indicator why the US and its allies are so intensley disliked on the Arab street.

by observer393 on Fri Nov 3rd, 2006 at 12:13:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "The Germans to the Front!" (none / 0)

Slightly off topic why did the buffer zone not extend into the territory of the aggressor?

Because politics is the "art of the possible": extending the buffer zone 50-50 on both sides of the frontier would have been too much for Bolton to stomach as Israel's negotiation proxy in the UNSC, he'd have vetoed like a shot = no life-saving resolution to stop Israel bombing the Lebanese and get Israeli forces to vacate Southern Lebanon so its bombed and terrorized population could return safely to their homes and start rebuilding.

...why the US and its allies are so intensley disliked on the Arab street..

Re "unpopularity" of so-called "US allies" - it's not "who you are" (Europe) it's "what you do": in ME opinion-polls, France's popularity in the ME peaked sharply following its UNSC opposition to America's attack-plans against Iraq, and Italy is well-known for maintaining cordial relations with ME govts. and political forces (including Iran, Syria..) that the US won't even speak to. When preparing the political ground for the UNIFIL mission our FM D'Alema exchanged very cordially visits with all Lebanese political leaders including Hizbollah spokesman Nabih Berri, with whom he was photographed cozily arm-in-arm - much to Israel's fury.

And since Israel's somewhat UN-pushed withdrawal from the areas it had invaded and occupied in Lebanon between the Israeli border and the Litani river, the Likud-zone of the Israeli media world has been fiercely and systematically attacking the French and Italian contingents for being "anti-Israeli" and "pro-Hizbollah"... even repeatedly accusing them - with no proof whatsoever! - of deliberately keeping both eyes tightly shut to let in arms shipments for Hizb. from Syria and Iran. And there have been reports of several armed standoffs between Israeli and French forces, plus Israeli mutterings about French jets patrolling Beirut's skies to protect Nasrallah's postwar maxi-rally... all of which is of course not lost on neighbouring Arab media.

"Ignoring moralities is always undesirable, but doing so systematically is really worrisome." Mohammed Khatami

by eternalcityblues (parvati_roma aaaat libero.it) on Fri Nov 3rd, 2006 at 08:21:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "The Germans to the Front!" (none / 0)

unless the Israelis were already planning on invading Lebanon again there would be no reason for them to even meet German troops.

Well, that just goes to the heart of the matter, now doesn't it?

Yes, they probably WILL meet German troops.

The Fates are kind.

by Gaianne on Fri Nov 3rd, 2006 at 09:30:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"The Germans to the Front!" | 62 comments (62 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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