Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Display:
PS Primaries - Voting has begun | 92 comments (92 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: PS Primaries - Voting has begun (none / 0)
Why should voters in general be called on to pick a party's candidate?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 03:52:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: PS Primaries - Voting has begun (none / 0)
Uh, so people like Hillary Clinton don't end up running the country?  (I don't know what the equivalent candidate is in France.)  So the people have a say.  So that political parties represent the will of the people and not the will of career politicians.  

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
by p------- on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 03:57:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: PS Primaries - Voting has begun (4.00 / 2)
Imagine:

  • If the Democrats would be like an European party and party members rather than Beltway idiots would pick the leader, Hillary wouldn't stand a chance.

  • Even if yes, if the USA would have an at least partially proportional system, voters would be able to pick from more than two candidates in the elections.


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 04:02:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: PS Primaries - Voting has begun (none / 0)
<sigh> Is this going to be another America/ Europe scrap?
<sigh>
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 04:03:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: PS Primaries - Voting has begun (none / 0)
It is important, both for Americans and Europeans, to understand that things don't need to be the way they are.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 04:05:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: PS Primaries - Voting has begun (none / 0)
Sigh, sorry I dare bring up anything that makes France look bad.  Mea Culpa.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
by p------- on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 04:05:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: PS Primaries - Voting has begun (none / 0)
It makes France look different. You still haven't explained why it's "good" that the Secretary of State has the political affiliation of every registered votter on file.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 04:08:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: PS Primaries - Voting has begun (none / 0)
Don't change the subject, Mig.  It makes France look bad that people have to pay to vote in the primaries.  Or are we all going to pretend that charging a fee to vote is a good thing?  

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
by p------- on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 04:11:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: PS Primaries - Voting has begun (none / 0)
Which part of "an internal party selection process is not an open primary" don't you understand?

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 04:22:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: PS Primaries - Voting has begun (none / 1)
No no, do not apologise. You raise valid points.

The thing is that this is not a primary, it is an internal process of an european party.

Because we are in general not restricted to choose between two parties, choosing the candidates is seen as a legitimate internal process. If the parties choose the wrong candidates you can simply vote for another party.

In the french presidential election round one of the elections is more like your primaries as it is (generally, though I assume that you win it all if you get more then 50% in round one) there the two main competitors are elected. Of course, this has it drawbacks too (need I mention Le Pen?).

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 04:16:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: PS Primaries - Voting has begun (none / 0)
Also allow to apologize for boring you with my concerns.  I happen to think they are valid and important but you are certainly entitled to your own opinions...

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
by p------- on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 04:14:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: PS Primaries - Voting has begun (none / 1)
Methinks afew expressed fear of another shouting match with people feeling hurt.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 04:34:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: PS Primaries - Voting has begun (none / 0)
That's exactly what I was hoping we might avoid.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 04:40:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: PS Primaries - Voting has begun (4.00 / 3)
Most of Europe doesn't have a first past the post electoral system. Or a district-based system at all. This changes pretty much everything, in terms of political calculation.

There is always a risk of a 'breakthrough'. An equivalent of Ross Perot anno MCMXCII would earn 20% of the parliamentary representation in most of Europe. And hang on to it for up to four years. This is sort of what happened with Pim Fortuyn in the Netherlands in 2002. Keeps politicians on their toes.

(Except Fortuyn was murdered and his party subsequently ousted after barely a year. But had he lived he might have hung on to those seats).

A system of proportional representation makes open primaries largely redundant, and maybe even dangerous.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu Nov 16th, 2006 at 08:17:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

PS Primaries - Voting has begun | 92 comments (92 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
Display: