Dutch General Elections Diary (in progress) | 139 comments (139 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Exactly n/t (none / 0)

What is the SP/Marijnissen's view of integration and of social policy?

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 at 04:06:27 PM EST
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Re: Exactly n/t (none / 0)

More money for the poor, integration should be forced, etc etc etc...They were a Mao based party...

by Freud (freud@freudie.org) on Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 at 04:07:30 PM EST
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Re: Exactly n/t (none / 0)

Integration should be forced...

What does this mean?

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 at 04:10:48 PM EST
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Re: Exactly n/t (none / 0)

Adopting the French model?

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 at 04:12:19 PM EST
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Re: Exactly n/t (none / 1)

In one word? Equality.

Social structure is the SP issue - and I wholeheartedly support their plans for the health care and education. But they are very conservative when it comes to foreign policy.

SP has not been too vocal on integration; but does stress public safety.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 at 04:10:03 PM EST
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Re: Exactly n/t (none / 0)

So we're talking about an old-line, real Socialist party.

I should think they'd have no trouble in a coalition with the Christian group if they are ideologically what I imagine them to be.

30 seats.

Wow.

Any on the ground thoughts on how this could have happened? Real socialists - not exactly a Dutch tradition, huh?

Recalls '02 in France.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 at 04:19:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly n/t (4.00 / 4)

I met one of their senators during the ESF meeting in Athens. I was impressed: they're realist without being "sold-out", rather skeptical of the EU, but in a reasonable way, and really are a party of what is traditionally considered the Left. Plus they seem to have a grasp of issues that usually transcends that of the rest of the European Left They're associated with but not members of the European Left party. Their web magazine Spectrezine is excellent and so is its blog.

BTW what are the actual vote percentages?

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Thu Nov 23rd, 2006 at 07:49:38 AM EST
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Re: Exactly n/t (4.00 / 3)

From the SP site: Their history, their positions and their president's book.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Thu Nov 23rd, 2006 at 09:51:47 AM EST
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Thank you talos (4.00 / 2)

I agree, they are realist, and they have fledged as a party with very good ideas - but I don't agree with their somewhat hostile approach to the EU. Although given the relentless marketista noise coming out of Brussels, who'd blame them.

The actual vote percentages? What do you mean? Do you mean this?

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Thu Nov 23rd, 2006 at 10:05:21 AM EST
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Re: Thank you talos (4.00 / 2)

That link sends me to a copyright notice of sorts when I click on it - it only works when I copy and paste it on the address box... But yes, exactly that. I was weary of their "anti-EUness" as well, but as you say its not that they're lacking in arguments lately...

So 16.6 percent for the "hard" left at least, 21.2 if you count the Green Left... Is this unprecedented?

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Thu Nov 23rd, 2006 at 10:25:56 AM EST
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Re: Thank you talos (4.00 / 2)

Mmph. NOS copyrights interfere with direct linkage. But at least you saw it.

Unprecedented? I think it is. Look at the historic overview chart (wikipedia), here. SP and GroenLinks never bumped above 15%, let alone 20%.

This is why I wrote that the polarisation is far from gone...

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Thu Nov 23rd, 2006 at 12:04:04 PM EST
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Re: Exactly n/t (none / 0)

What do you mean by conservative foreign policy?

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 at 04:25:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly n/t (none / 0)

They basically want to get out of NATO

by Freud (freud@freudie.org) on Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 at 04:25:57 PM EST
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Re: Exactly n/t (none / 0)

So, conservative in a Gaullist sense of the word?

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 at 04:27:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly n/t (none / 0)

No, conservative in the same way pro-labour union democrats are conservative.

Gaullism is right-wing nationalism.

by Trond Ove on Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 at 05:34:59 PM EST
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Re: Exactly n/t (none / 0)

Confused here.

Pro-labor union Democrats have often been very pro-military, pro-interventionist, were supportive of the war in Vietnam, bled support to the GOP in the Reagan years.

Basically right-nationalist, though this is changing. Is this what we're talking about with the SP?

I always thought of DeGaulle's attitude viz. Nato as the original "third way," between "east" and "west" bloc. Not easily pigeon-holed, in terms of FP, as right-wing, at least relative to the FP pursued in Washington.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 at 06:43:47 PM EST
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Re: Exactly n/t (none / 0)

Well, I basically meant conservative in the original sense of the word, and within a certain political culture.

by Trond Ove on Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 at 07:50:29 PM EST
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Re: Exactly n/t (none / 1)

To be even clearer, the socialist party in Norway, SV, was founded in the 1950's based on their opposition to Norwegian membership in NATO. In the last few years, they voted for the NATO war against Serbia. But there are still members of the party critical of both this and NATO membership.

In other words they are Socialist party conservatives. I do not know if this roughly compares to the dutch example here, but I assume so.

by Trond Ove on Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 at 07:57:01 PM EST
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Re: Exactly n/t (4.00 / 3)

It definitely sounds like the same...

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Thu Nov 23rd, 2006 at 09:46:56 AM EST
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Not anymore on NATO, I thought (none / 0)

But they're very hostile on legislation coming out of Brussels, think the Dutch financial contribution still hasn't been decreased enough and are suspicious to the opening labour market with the enlargement of Bulgaria and Rumania. Would the descriptor protectionist be justified in this case?

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 at 04:29:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dutch General Elections Diary (in progress) | 139 comments (139 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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