Why S. Royal, irrespectively of politics | 37 comments (37 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: the point I wanted to make (none / 0)

You have to register? Don't people in France have ID cards?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 05:18:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the point I wanted to make (none / 1)

Yes, but it's not a voter card. You have to register, and for next year's elections the limit is the end of this year.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 05:23:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the point I wanted to make (none / 0)

But what exactly is a voter card for, if you can prove your identity?

Also, if you have registration, are official turnout figures in elections a percentage of voting-age people, or a percentage of registered voters?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 05:37:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I make be wrong (none / 0)

but my idea was that it is percentage of registered voters. Whether those who did not take the time/did not know about the necessity to register can actually show up on the day of the election and vote I don't know.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 at 09:02:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Register? (none / 0)

I am as surprised as DoDo.

If you do not have a national system of identification I understand that you need a register for voting (like in USA). But if you have national ID cards, then you can prove your identity so why a seperate registration?

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 05:42:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Register? (none / 0)

In Spain the electoral census is drawn automatically, and though you do get a voter registration card mailed to you (just to confirm your registration) you do not need it (nor is it valid) in order to vote, you just need your ID card, passport or driver's licence [the only government-issued ID, and so the only ones accepted]

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 06:12:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Register? (4.00 / 2)

That pretty much describes the swedish system to.

The voting registration card tells you which elections you can vote in and were your polling station is.

The voter registration card I think is also used (and needed) if you vote in advance, which you can do for the two weeks preceding the election at postal offices, libraries and such. You then also need an ID card, passport or driver's licence (ID cards are btw issued by banks in Sweden but are as valid as government-issued passports or driver's licence).

Maybe it is to make sure your vote is forwarded to the right polling station. If you both vote in advance and on the election day I think the later vote takes precedence.

If you lack a valid ID you can vote on the election day if you bring someone can ID themselves and who testifies that you are who you say you are.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 08:12:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Register? (none / 1)

In France you don't need the voter card for voting, ID will suffice. But you must be on the registered voters roll; those liste are built by the municipalities (ID cards are issued by the prefecture) and you have to proove that you've been living in the municipality for some length of time. Checks are then made that nobody
is on two different rolls. How is voting in two places prevented without specific voting rolls? also not that the national ID card is not all that compulsory ; passport and driving licenses are also ID proofs, and may not show the same adresses.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 11:51:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Register? (none / 1)

Don't you have to register locally anyway for tax purposes?

BTW, welcome back to ET!

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 03:44:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Register? (4.00 / 3)

After some troubles with lists about six decades ago, France has decided to keeps its various lists separate, and is wary about attempts to mesh them.

Voter rolls are only used for jury and poll purposes, and are set up by the municipalities ; Tax rolls don't care about nationality, and are set up by the State. Also means that you can vote even though you are cheating the tax man, also,tax rolls probably don't know everybody ; married couples count as one for the tax administration, etc... Finally, some people might chose to vote in their village in the province but pay tax in Paris... (e.g. All politicians vote in their fief in some small provincial village, but live in Paris most of the time)

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 06:30:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Register? (none / 0)

ome people might chose to vote in their village in the province but pay tax in Paris

I think that is a bad thing.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 06:32:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Register? (4.00 / 3)

Arguably. Don't forget though that many people come to Paris for a few years, to kickstart their careers or because they are ordered to by the government (most state employees start their career in the suburb of Paris before fleeing back home). They often remin interested in the place they'll spend their life rather than their temporary home.

In reply to another comment of yours furthjer down, in France local authorities can't decide to raise new taxes ; they only decide the rate of state-defined taxes. All taxes are collected by the Direction générale des impôts, and then redistributed to local authorities.

Ho, and I never left, spent much time lurking. I just don't comment often :)

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 10:02:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Register? (none / 0)

Regarding Paris-hometown hoppers, I am not against keeping up connections to the hometown -- to the contrary, I think it would be better for them if they'd get not only people's vote but taxes too.

Regarding the tax collecting/distributing system, then it seems it is not much different from what we have here. Here, one of the two main tax sources of local authorities is a fixed percentage of the income tax of its registered inhabitants (which, as in France, the tax authority collects but then redistributes to local authorities according to residence registration data).

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 10:49:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Register? (none / 0)

So you're ok with people keeping their voting rights in their hometown within a country, but think expatriates shouldn't have voting rights in their home country?

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 10:54:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Register? (none / 0)

My standard is exactly the same: where do you keep registered residence.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 11:04:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Register? (none / 1)

As to taxes, it should be noted that those taxes that are redirected to the municipalities, départements and région are inherently territorial ; whereas income tax goes directly and wholly to the State, it is the Taxe Foncière (tax on private property of land and buildings) and Taxe d'Habitation (tax on on occupying an habitation ; it is payed for secondary houses too). So that if effect the hometown does keep the taxes too.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Dec 3rd, 2006 at 06:38:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I make be wrong (none / 0)

In that case, I am really curious how France's 75-80% turnout figures look when changing from registered population to all voting-age population.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 10:29:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: done some googling (none / 0)

and do not seem able to come up with something consistent and intelligible re the way turnout in polls is accounted for in France. Afew, do you have a clue ?

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 10:46:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: done some googling (none / 1)

As far as I've seen it done, turnout figures are given relative to the voting lists, ie the percentage of registered voters who came in to vote.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 12:04:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the point I wanted to make (none / 1)

A voter card may indeed appear superfluous. But (in practice) French ID is often out-of-date concerning address. The officials running the polling station may reject an ID card if the details don't tally with the list.

The main thing is voter registration. Why is this surprising? Lists have to be compiled, or what is your ID to be checked against?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 02:33:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the point I wanted to make (none / 0)

Well, in Hungary, you have to register with local authorities one place where you live, and can vote only there, but that registration is compulsory and not only for elections (also for taxes).

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Nov 30th, 2006 at 03:43:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the point I wanted to make (none / 0)

Foreigners (including EU) must do this in France, not nationals. For tax purposes, that is with the tax authorities, not the municipality. And a person may have property, or reside, in several places, and therefore pay tax in two or more municipal districts or wards in big towns. So voter registration is a way of opting for where you vote.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 06:14:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the point I wanted to make (none / 0)

But don't you have to register a 'primary residence', and don't some taxes (say income tax) only correspond with that place? Also, is France still that much centralised that local authorities don't have a share in the tax (only money assigned by the central government)?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 06:20:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the point I wanted to make (none / 1)

You have a primary residence. But you can opt to vote in the place of your secondary residence. You pay local taxes on both.

Income tax documents use your primary residence address, but you can just as well file your returns and pay through Internet, there is no formal link with local authorities.

The redistribution from the central State to local authorities, as far as I know, has no connection with income tax as such. It just comes out of the Treasury (afaik).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 11:38:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the point I wanted to make (none / 0)

Same in Sweden, you have a primary residence, which is then used both for taxation and voting purposes.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Dec 1st, 2006 at 08:15:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Why S. Royal, irrespectively of politics | 37 comments (37 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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