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Supplementing other replies regarding the centrifuges (e.g. no sole use for nuclear enrichment, only enrichment in less steps/faster), one ignored point is that Iran's centrifuges are not an Iranian but an imported Pakistani design. You could argue that the Pakistanis did indeed use their centrifuges to produce bomb-grade uranium. However, given the context that the USA prevented Iran from gaining nuclear technology it was entitled to under the NNPT with diplomatic pressure, getting even China to renege on contracts, the "you get them where you can" argument holds.

Others also addressed the 'acceptable' and 'snuffed' offer from the Russians, and elsewhere I addressed the unreported part of Iranian offers and EU-3+USA refusals.

I add a further point. You acknowledged that the beryllium issue was false. You probably also remember the highly-enriched particles in Iranian centrifuges touted as absolute proof, which turned out to have been contamination from the Pakistani manufacturer. A third example is when the USA touted photos of Iranian nuclear facilities including Arak, claiming they are held secret - despite the facts that (a) under the NPTP, new facilities have to be reported six months before they come on-line - in Arak's case, that would be in late 2013 -, (b) the facilities were, in fact, already known by then, only not visited, (c) Iran has invited the IAEA to inspect those facilities, which then didn't yet happen.

Now, do you see a pattern? One reminding of 2002/3?

We want to ban nuclear arms, not promote it.

Indeed. And the NNPT explicitely involves the promise from existing powers to dismantle their arsenal. But they refuse to do so, what's more they refuse to give up on the first-strike option, in fact issue threats to use their nukes (USA, France), what's more one of them (the USA) wants to build a missile defense system that would strategically weaken rival existing nuclear powers (by reducing their return strike capacity). I don't know about you, but I cannot convince myself that this talk is only empty rhetoric, I do see a spectre of nuclear war. In this context, one possible target gaining deterrence may reduce the threat of a nuclear war.

This is not a promotion of nukes, quite the contrary. This is purely a counter-argument to the threat argument, and points to problems I see as more much serious on the way to ban nukes.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sat Feb 18th, 2006 at 04:23:35 AM EST
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Now, do you see a pattern? One reminding of 2002/3?

Of course I'm seeing a pattern, and I've hinted myself that I feel there are warmonger drums being banged. It's just not the main issue I'm addressing. There is propaganda from two sides and right now I'm not going to take any side as the truth. My problem lies specifically with the nuclear facilities of Iran and there it ends.

You acknowledged that the beryllium issue was false.

Where did I do that? I asked for confirmation whether Be-contamination of the hex was true. In what way do you mean it is false? I don't understand at all. Elaborate, please.

In this context, one possible target gaining deterrence may reduce the threat of a nuclear war.

Blech. I can see your reasoning, but I completely disagree. In Chris Kulczycki's diary on the Culture of Guns, you see that lesser weapons around result in smaller numbers of accidents. I'd go with that on this issue as well.

I find the hyporcricy of nuclear nations equally disturbing, but I would go never so far as to knead it into a counter-argument for an increasing nuclear arsenal. I can see why people would use it, but I find it utterly self-destructive. To me, this has always been a two pronged fight: demote the nuclear use in other countries and promote the disbanding of nuclear weapons in those countries which have it.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Sat Feb 18th, 2006 at 09:36:04 AM EST
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There is propaganda from two sides and right now I'm not going to take any side as the truth.

The problem is, of course, that you can read the propaganda of the Iranian side and the IAEA's factual assesments only channelled through sources often sympathetic to the EU-3+US side. Which sets the terms of the debate.

Where did I do that?

Sorry, was cursory reading, I completely messed up. I misread your last sentence in that post as an implicit reference that you know the following info: that the US claims that Iran imported large quantities of beryllium were disproved by IAEA a year ago. That one is in line with a series of over-egged to false claims, but not what you were speaking about.

Regarding what you were speaking about, the yellowcake impurities, worth to read this and this.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sat Feb 18th, 2006 at 11:50:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem is, of course, that you can read the propaganda of the Iranian side and the IAEA's factual assesments only channelled through sources often sympathetic to the EU-3+US side. Which sets the terms of the debate.

Which is why I generally go back to the IAEA as the most reliable source... I take their factual assessment any time above the clamour of Iran or the USA.

Thanks for the links to the UF gas. That's indeed the issue I was looking confirmation for. Unfortunately, nothing is "official". Sources are among others anonymous IAEA diplomats - which at least gives it an appearance of credibility.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Sun Feb 19th, 2006 at 05:23:03 AM EST
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