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Since the Shah was overthrown in 1979, the Radical mullahs ruling Iran have been trying to take over the region.

The first began to attack Iraq just prior to Saddam's takeover of Iraq

Wikipedia: Iran-Iraq War

The war began when Iraq invaded Iran on 22 September 1980 following a long history of border disputes.

The Iran-Iraq was was a proxy war waged by Saddam on behalf of the US.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 17th, 2006 at 10:20:54 AM EST
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Wikipedia: Iran-Iraq War

The war began when Iraq invaded Iran on 22 September 1980 following a long history of border disputes.

According to Efriam Karsh's The Iran-Iraq War 1980-1988 Iran's army began shooting at Iraq's in May, and on 4 September 1980 Iran shells Ihanaquin and Mandaili in Iraq followed by a small battle. This was all prior to the big invasion on the 22nd of September.

I've always thought that two legally authorized armies shooting at each other for an extended period of time was a war.

by messy on Fri Feb 17th, 2006 at 03:04:59 PM EST
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From Dilip Hiro's Iraq: A Report From The Inside:

The rise of an Islamic republic in the Shia-majority Iran under Khomeini in early 1979 provoked militancy among Iraqi Shias, to the extent that the increasingly powerful first vice president of the republic, young Saddam Hussein, a Sunni, acted severely against them, much to the unease of the oder President Bakr.  While Khomeini took to appealing to Iraqis to overthrow the "non-Muslim" Baathist regime, Baghdad encouraged the ethnic Arabs in the oil-rich Iranian province of Khuzestan to demand autonomy and sabotage oil installations.  The differences between Bakr and Saddam on how to tackle the Shia problem became irreconcilable.  So on July 17, 1979, the eleventh anniversary of the Baathist seizure of power, Saddam Hussein became chairman of the Revolutionary Command Council and president of Iraq after forcing Bakr to step down.

On the fifth anniversary of the 1975 Iran-Iraq treaty of International Boundaries and Neighborliness, Saddam declared in the newly convened Parliament that he was abrogating the treaty forthwith.

This was the prelude to the Iraqi invasion of Iran.

The Iran-Iraq War

On September 22, 1980, Iraq invaded Iran, a country three-and-a-half times as large and four times more populous than itself.  Its army crossed the border at several points while its air force bombed Iranian military installations and economic targets.  Angered by the Iranians' hostage-taking at the US embassy in Tehran in November 1979, the Carter administration had encouraged Iraq, through diplomatic back channels, to attack Iran.  Now, however, Washington declared itself neutral in the war.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Feb 17th, 2006 at 03:21:21 PM EST
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Heh, my comment looks rather redundant now. Thanks for this post, tsp! Useful details.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Feb 17th, 2006 at 03:37:56 PM EST
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oops.  Make that "older President Bakr."

Damn typing gnomes....

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Feb 17th, 2006 at 03:39:44 PM EST
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Hmmm, so India and Pakistan have been at war for a lot more of the last 40 years than most people realize.

Much more importantly, there were numerous border clashes from 1971 onwards which Karsh seems to skip over, which throws some light on his (or is it your?) attempt to rewrite a definitive origin of the conflict.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Feb 17th, 2006 at 03:34:58 PM EST
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The beginning of the conflict in Kashmir began when the King of Kashmir decided to join India rather than Pakistan in 1947. That is the definitive origin of the conflict.

The Pakistanis have hated the Indians since well before independance. Aside from the Bangladeshi war in 1971, there's been a constant war on the Kashimiri "line of control" for decades. The Sichan glacier in the Himilayas was the scene of what might be termed "live fire war games" between India and Pakistan during the 1980s and '90s. Every spring the two armies would shoot canon at each other. A couple of dozen people would get killed by the other side's live fire, but for the rest, it was good training.

There were two major crises, Kargil in 1999 and the 2001-02 mini-war. I still remember a report on MSNBC or CNN at the beginning of 2002 when they had an "expert" saying--while video of two side blasting away, mind you--"If things get worse, they might start shooting at each other." Had not Colin Powell and Richard Armitage conducted shuttle diplomacy, there would have been a nuclear war.

In 1999, while Prime Minister Nawaz Shariff was visiting Washington, Clinton learned that the Pakistani General Staff was planning to nuke Indian troops in Kashmir, which was succeeding in pushing the Pakistanis out of the Kargil plateau, which they had invaded a month before. There were already thousands of casulaties. Clinton got Sharif to force the GS to stand down.

Bill Clinton saved the world that day, and nobody knows it. Whatever you think of Bush (and it ain't much in any case) He also prevented a nuclear war in 2002.

by messy on Fri Feb 17th, 2006 at 09:17:53 PM EST
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Ah, messy, you do love to lecture don't you...

It's noticeable that you skip the main point here (Iran-Iraq) particularly avoiding tsp's fine post.

As for your line:

"The Pakistanis have hated the Indians since well before independance."

it certainly sums up well the quality of your information sources.
 

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sat Feb 18th, 2006 at 02:41:55 AM EST
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Ah, messy, you do love to lecture don't you...

No more than anyone else around here. However I've never figured out how to post a diary...

by messy on Sat Feb 18th, 2006 at 08:40:59 AM EST
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Just in case you are not joking:

On the right hand side, above recommended diaries is a little box, headed with your username (e.g. Messy). Inside the box is a link "New Diary Entry." Click on there and it's fairly simple.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sat Feb 18th, 2006 at 08:49:38 AM EST
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thank you very much.
by messy on Sat Feb 18th, 2006 at 04:27:05 PM EST
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