Muslim Cartoon Controversy: What the Media Isn't Telling You | 78 comments (78 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (4.00 / 2)

the one showing a bomb in head as if all muslims are terrorists is a good example..All muslims are terrorist, and the main figure of the religion is just a terrorist. It is just like the anti-semitic cartoons you can see in the middle East quite often.

But of course, if you do not hink that those cartoons in the Middle-east are anti-semitic, well then of course, they are not racists for you.

According to me, the one against muslims and the ones about the jews are both racist.

I would defend the rigth of anybody to be racist...but regarding the balance between public racist statements and free speech.. I normally side with free speech.

Just my opinion.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 03:08:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

Then why show us the censorship issues in Spain? I have no idea how that is relevant at all. And asking for public apologies from a government official for something printed in the private media??!!! I am entirely against that. That would be horrible.

The coercive power of governments in the public square should be reigned in when it comes to free speech. In fact, the world is suffering today because the US gov't has effectively defined patriotism as unabashed allegiance to the military and nation. Their arguments are coercive, and they are often adopted by the media as the borders of "good taste." A public apology from a gov't official would have similar effects.

I am not against ALL forms of censorship. I believe that some forms of speech (that which curtails the speech of others, especially through intimidation and violence) should be censored. But these cartoons clearly fall outside that scope.

by Upstate NY on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 04:21:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 1)

The examples of Spain where the ones I know to defend that free speech in Europe is very easy to defend when muslims are involved, but not at all when jews or christians are involved.

I am also against asking for apologies to the government official (I would actually not even ask apologies to anybody... I do not care). But I think it is the right of any person to ask for one. I also believe the right of anybody to give or not give the apologies and the right of anybody to call for a boycott of any product.

As long as there is no violence, everything is fine for me.

Having said that.. ona personal note, I very much admire your point of view of allowing any kind of speech. It is perfectly consistent, well reasoned and you explain it very well. I have always been like you but I have realized that I was not that sure what to do when nazis groups depeloped a system of propaganda of their hate against jews and muslims in Europe. I do not know what to do when clear and over racist statements/cartoons/books are used to incite people to kill each other. I am now rethinking it...

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 04:38:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

kcurie, I'm actually not for unlimited free speech. I believe that there are times when a form of speech is actually used to silence another's right to speech. This usually happens hand-in-hand with intimidation or threats. I believe there is such a thing as hate speech which targets an individual and attempts to subjugate. I don't think we should tolerate such speech.

by Upstate NY on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 11:08:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

I think that one of the cartoons is hate speech performed with the intention to incite violence against muslims.

So you think I should defend that it should be forbidden? I am just asking

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 03:36:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I can't see how you come up with that. (none / 0)

None of the cartoons rise to the level of hate speech, nor are they violent. Hate speech is usually performed by an actor who intimidates someone directly, either through violence or other means. All of these cartoons are works of art, indirect free speech which relies on symbolism and metaphor to get a point across. As such, they wouldn't fall under hate speech.

by Upstate NY on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 03:01:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

Quote:
As long as there is no violence, everything is fine for me.
*
But don't others here understand that stuff like this PRODUCE violence???

Quote:
I am also against asking for apologies to the government official
*
Right! Muslims should actually sue and ask to be paid compensation for every single Muslim in this world who is offended by this and of course they should bankrupt this specific newspaper. Then next time "free speech" lovers would think twice before they publish racist stuff. Same with anybody else Christians, Jews that are offended.
I don't mind that any of you are atheists, that's your right to be, but I can only agree when you make jokes about PEOPLE who are misusing religion for political and other purposes. Not the exact religion. I don't see why you would offend me or anybody else's RIGHT to believe.
Few days ago friend told me: "See now some scientists agree that photon can exist at the same time in two different places and most of the people believe them"...

Not that I know much about physics but it looks to me this actually ruin all physics that we know about till this day ... (disclaimer: I don't know anything about this statement or if this information is right, I am just passing friends thought)...
"Why then they can't believe in God, Spirit, and "Life" after death etc."
It's just what you chose to believe into.
Quote:
I was not that sure what to do when nazis groups depeloped a system of propaganda of their hate against jews and muslims in Europe. I do not know what to do when clear and over racist statements/cartoons/books are used to incite people to kill each other. I am now rethinking it...
*
You are right. One's freedom should be only limited within space where he doesn't offend or hurt others...
Too much of "irresponsible" freedom (in all the different fields of life as much private as well as communal) has brought us here...and it's not pleasant place to be.

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein

by vbo on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 11:31:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

I think there are are two lines.

The first line is obvious.. physical violence. When there is physical violence you have crossed the line.If someone attacks you verbally, you can attack back verbally, defend with arguments, insult..but never attack physically..it is the same difference beween supporting murdering and actually murdering. Any penal Code in the West stablish a clear distinction between both and I think it is a great idea. even when someone provokes you.. it is up to you to cross the line or not.

Attacks on any specific person for specific reasons not attached to any genral religion, race or ideology, etc... is considered libel (if it is moral) here by the judge .. and stablishing it is quite objective.. So there is no line-crossing..just comitting a fault or not.

The great line we are discussing here is what to do with general incitement and general racists remarks...Forbidding them all is just impossible since everybody has always some tendency to denigrate some group or to make even slight generalizations. It is practiacally impossible...there are slight racists remark everywhere.. you can not put everybody in prison... So you have to decide if you put a line and, if you indeed do it, where to put and how to put it

I am not convinced which one is the good one but I do know that whenever there is a line the tendency is to be harsher on the minority and "respect" more the majority. This does not mean that absolute free speech is the solution. I just do not know.

That was all my point.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 03:32:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

I understand what you mean .That line is very tiny. Once crossed...and mass madness is here...spreading like hell. Can't bee stopped. All though it's orchestrated big way.
I've been there. Same thing developed in front of my eyes prior to Balkan wars...I couldn't believe my eyes and ears...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein

by vbo on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 07:44:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

I don't mind that any of you are atheists, that's your right to be, but I can only agree when you make jokes about PEOPLE who are misusing religion for political and other purposes. Not the exact religion. I don't see why you would offend me or anybody else's RIGHT to believe.

This is out?

It somehow offends your right to believe, then? How exactly?

I submit that it's quite different human rights that are at stake here. The above cartoon actually threatened to land a German artist in Greek prison in 2005.

He meant it as a piece of religious satire, a playful look at the life of Jesus. But Gerhard Haderer's depiction of Christ as a binge-drinking friend of Jimi Hendrix and naked surfer high on cannabis has caused a furore that could potentially land the cartoonist in jail.
Haderer did not even know that his book, The Life of Jesus, had been published in Greece until he received a summons to appear in court in Athens in January charged with blasphemy.

Again, I am dismayed that people here make common cause with the most brute and blackguard religious right. You know, the guys at whose behest they murdered Jesus?

I'm not sure whether you really support religious cencorship, but if so, please do the rest of us one little favor: don't call yourself a 'liberal'.

(PS. Quantum Mechanics is some seventy years old.)

The world's northernmost desert wind.

by Sirocco (sirocco2005ATgmail.com) on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 02:52:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

OK.
Quote:

It somehow offends your right to believe, then? How exactly?
*
Well not that this one offends ME personally, but I may have "wider angle" because I grew up in communist country. I can imagine people (like Greeks) that grew up in community where religion had much stronger influence, being offended.
This caricature "offends" me for different reason. It makes fun of me in a way like it's telling me: "Hey you moron how can you believe in anything that stupid?"...I refuse to argue but then I have to ask back "OK. But how can you believe in anything so pathetic as Darwin's "monkey" theory...you monkey..." and here it goes, we can step on each other throat ...I would rather skip the whole thing and let you believe what ever you want in favor to let me do the same.

Quote:

"I'm not sure whether you really support religious censorship, but if so, please do the rest of us one little favor: don't call yourself a 'liberal'."
*
I do support religious , nationalistic, gender, and other kinds of "censorship" or better say I support abstinence (but do not mix me with Bush and abstinence he recommended, ha-ha) of mucking people around about things that most people are sensitive of. It never had any result that I would be favorable of.

I do not call my self "liberal" and as I said previously my position in politic is not even left of the centre but more centre itself. All though I find I have much in common with views of you "liberals" here...what ever that means, because here in Australia Howard's party is named 'Liberal" and they are not exactly what word would suggest. They are very far right and are liberal only about "free trade" (what ever they make of it).

Quote:
(PS. Quantum Mechanics is some seventy years old.)
*
Thank you for your information. I am totally in the dark regarding physic. I have to admit my friend must be totally out of the date, ha-ha.

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein

by vbo on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 10:16:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

No, in my opinion you can draw a caricature of a Muslim without being a racist just as you are allowed to critizie Israeli policy without being called an anti-semite.

There are degrees to which such caricatures are bordering and sometimes crossing the racist line, yes, but such caricatures in general can not and should not automatically be called racist. The one to decide this, on the individual level, is each and every person. On the collective, or societal, level this is up to the courts to decide within the respective countries.

Bitsofnews.com Giving you the latest bits.

by Gjermund E Jansen (gjans1@hotmail.com) on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 04:41:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 1)

Of course, it is me the one that consideres three of these cartoons racist. I am happy to defend my position to anybody.

And my clear point is that the judicial/press/media system is completely biased against muslims. A racist cartoon about danes in an European newspapers inciting violence will be quickly dismissed as racist and probably forbidden (if it is ever published which I doubt). Not if it is about muslims.

I indeed think that you can criticize Israel and Sharon with strong cartoon without being racist.. but you can also do it being racist. The cartoons I see here in the Middle East are a lot of them racists agains jews.. and I think these cartoon were racist. If they are not racist for you... well you have another definition of what is racism than what I have.

Having said that, what has a court to decide.. do we not have the free speech to declare anything.. even when it is racist?

I am saying that a lot of people get ventilations when the right to state racist comments is curtailed...when it is about muslims they do not get any ventilation when the racist comments are about jews and catholics.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 04:57:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Can I just say... (4.00 / 2)

that although many commenters on these threads seem to believe that everyone needs to be able to accept being ridiculed and satired... there is a difference between being made fun of and being vilified. A bomb in Muhammed's turban is vilification.

When members of the majority who have access to the dominant mass media use that access and their dominant position in society to vilify and demonize a weaker minority... well, that can lead to bad things.

I learned that when I went to Rwanda.

To stem the inevitable outrage over that statement, I want to make it clear right now that I am not saying that I think Danes are going to start slaughtering their Muslim neighbors. I am only saying that hate speech starts somewhere.

Some kinds of speech, especially when someone stronger mocks someone weaker -- what, you can't take it? you just don't have a sense of humor... -- strike me as more like bullying than humor.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 05:47:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

And my clear point is that the judicial/press/media system is completely biased against Muslims. A racist cartoon about Danes in a European newspapers inciting violence will be quickly dismissed as racist and probably forbidden (if it is ever published which I doubt). Not if it is about Muslims.

Well, then you really got a problem if you distrust the system that much. I can not say I share your scepticism, obviously. Sure no system is perfect, but then do we expect it to be? As for your belief that a racist cartoon about Danes in a European newspaper would quickly be dismissed as racist and forbidden I can not say that I share your belief on that one either.

Having said that, what has a court to decide.. do we not have the free speech to declare anything.. even when it is racist?

Freedom of speech has its limits of course when it is a hate speech or an incitement to racial violence or violence in general. Norway and Denmark even have a blasphemous paragraph which is seldom in use by the way. If Muslim people find these cartoons offensive, blasphemous and even racist well they could have their day in court, although I doubt they would get a favourable ruling because the freedom of speech principle is so important in European societies. Of course you might say, with your deep scepticism towards the system, that this is a racist ruling and you are entitled to say so and believe so in a free society. That doesn't nesseccarily make it more true.

Bitsofnews.com Giving you the latest bits.

by Gjermund E Jansen (gjans1@hotmail.com) on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 06:22:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

So, we see where we disagree. I think you are utterly wrong and that the data in Europe compelely support my case of biased system.. in TV, in newspapers, in the justice system.

But you know.. I will change my opinion gladly if you could come to Spain and dress yourself and live a life as a muslim.. exactly as a muslim.. in Almeria let's say. If you have nay problem ..go to the police or the justice system....and then you come back.

Go there. for just six months.. well maybe even less because I do not want you any harm.. you come back and you explain me that I was totally wrong...I will inmediately change my opinion.

Meanwhile I am entiitle to my opinion that you are just completely blind on these things, that you do not want to see..after all it does not affect you
And again you are perfectly entitle to your opinion that this is not the case and that the system is balanced...but this does not make it any more true neither...actually I think is just like defending that the earth is flat...but again you are entitle to be completely wrong:) Lucky of this free society that allows me to defend that Earth is not exactly flat(this last sentence is a little bit condescending.. well, just how I felt about your last post).

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 06:32:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

I do agree with you on your point that it is racist views in Europe, but not that they are so deeply entrenched in the whole system. There are racism everywhere both in Europe and in the Middle East, but that doesn't make it systematic.

I think it is safe to say that we both could agree to disagree on this matter.

Bitsofnews.com Giving you the latest bits.

by Gjermund E Jansen (gjans1@hotmail.com) on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 06:56:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

Maybe I just live in Spain, and here you notice that is entrenched more deeply. I think we agree to disagree..I could actually think that depending on your hisotry and where you live, i could indeed have your perception..We can interchange our lifes for a while...:)

A friend (living in Danemarkk for five years) told me that Danemark is basically the same as Spain.. and another one living in US and Norway told met hat nothing compared to racism you can see in Spain...in Norway there is more than in the US, he claimed, but nothing like Spain.

So, it is a deep world perception difference. I indeed think that the same cartoon written against jews or catholics would be banned, actually I think self-censorship would have worked...but not in the case of muslims..they are the minority and the one object of constant ridicule and racism. This is why admire the british newspapers...the always ask what would I have done if instead of a muslim it would have been a jew or a anglican?...and they go from there...This is my philosophy.

So happy to disagree...

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 03:03:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

Well, I am a tolerant guy, no offence taken. ;)

Bitsofnews.com Giving you the latest bits.

by Gjermund E Jansen (gjans1@hotmail.com) on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 07:00:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

And I do apologize if anything I said in my previous comments insulted you in any way since that was not my intention at all.

Bitsofnews.com Giving you the latest bits.

by Gjermund E Jansen (gjans1@hotmail.com) on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 07:09:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

jesus no.

Interpreting that someone else looks like is writing some condescending sentence (one) is no offense, even less insulting and not necessarily true.. oh jesus no.

NO need for these apologies at all...

Actually if you had the need to apologize I certainly did something wrong. Sorry for that.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 03:06:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

Quote:
Freedom of speech has its limits of course when it is a hate speech or an incitement to racial violence or violence in general.
*
Well here is the REAL PROBLEM! Who is there to decide when it is "hate speech" ...People are not all sensitive equally...
Quote:
Well they could have their day in court, although I doubt they would get a favorable ruling because the freedom of speech principle is so important in European societies.
*
Here the real problem lies. So if you are European (just in this case) you can offend anybody as long it's within Europe? But the world is GLOBAL village today. Americans and Europeans "cared" so much that Saddam Hussein striped his people of democracy that they had to occupy his country...C'mon ...if only things are that simple and easy...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein

by vbo on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 11:56:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

Well, I am afraid they are. That is why we have national laws upheld by national governments. As long as I abide by the laws in the respective country I am entitled to do what I want. We have of course international law, but with no means of enforcing it.

And I seem to remember that it was not only The US and some European countries that "occupied" Iraq. If I remember correctly Australia is also in the "Coalition of the willing".

Bitsofnews.com Giving you the latest bits.

by Gjermund E Jansen (gjans1@hotmail.com) on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 12:29:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

Yap unfortunately you are right about Australia...but I just wanted to make a point there. Of course you know that I am naturalized Australian and first of all Serb and European ...I tried my best as a citizen of Australia to stop Howard's decision, I protested with others...but you know...
There are national and international laws but also there is a "common sense". We are asked to use a common sense when super and other powers are about to do the things against and outside the law (like occupying and bombarding other people's countries) but we are not to use it if we are not told by them...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein

by vbo on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 01:01:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

Well, common sense seems to be a relative term in this case. :)

Bitsofnews.com Giving you the latest bits.

by Gjermund E Jansen (gjans1@hotmail.com) on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 10:13:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's the whole point isn't it? (none / 1)

But of course, if you do not hink that those cartoons in the Middle-east are anti-semitic, well then of course, they are not racists for you.

That to me seems the crux of the entire divide in this debate. I thought those cartoons on Israel, for example the one with the Jew and Bush as parrot, tasteless and not something I agree with. But I'm not offended enough to call them racist or think they cross the line. Yes, their anti-semitic - but is that already a crime?

I stopped to ponder that. Serious: Is generating anti-semitic material punnishable? I've no clue at all. It actually would make no sense to me if it was.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 05:04:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's the whole point isn't it? (none / 0)

The tyicall cartoon in the middle East is normally much more worst. They depict jews as being beast, and quite some of them generalizing saying that all jews are basically, well you name it.

And yes.. I am not sure if a cartoon because it is racist or anti-semitic it should be banned.

I can tell you that in Spain they are forbidden, yes. If a judge considers a cartoon or any statement blatantly racist or inciting the attack of any minority or majority it can be forbidden. There are examples of anti-semitic material banned. In a word, depicting Sharon as a killer is fine and legal, depicting jews as beasts killing innocents and commenting somehting like "all jews are evil.. all jews are evil..", yes it is forbidden. Attacks on the honour of a person would lead to fines and a "forced retraction"(they are literally ordered to pay for apologies in the newsmedia), general racist attacks and incitement lead to banning and prison.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 05:50:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's the whole point isn't it? (none / 0)

Thanks for your reply! I took my anti-semitic cartoon as an example because it was one of the "moderate" ones.

And the one with Sharon (although revolting) plays directly to the person, not to the Jewish people itself, and I can see the point.

But again, it comes down to perceptions. There is a grey area in this debate; there isn't a sharp line which says: this is racist, this is incitement, and on the other side of the line, it isn't and all is perfectly acceptable. It's the same for say, the discussion on abortion: when is something a life, and when is it just a clump of cells? Who makes that decision?

The factor grey is a tremendous source of strife.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 06:00:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's the whole point isn't it? (none / 1)

Absolutely right.

I will much more comfortable in this debate if either everything is legal or if non-biased could be developed. I understand tha point of the absolutists of free speech..there is no way to write a clear line on this. It is very easy on any physical attack but not on anything that hurts other feelings or incite to do something. Consistent but I am not sure if it is right.

Is it possible to have non-biased criteria taking into account all the factors??? Oh those grey areas that you name.. ohhh they are the salt of life or maybe even just life....

Take care my friend

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 06:15:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And you, too! (none / 0)

See, despite our earlier promises to call it quits on this discussion, we went straight on in the next thread. There's something fundamental in this discussion that stirs many of us.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 08:09:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And you, too! (none / 1)

je je je... I never quit it with you :) je je jejje

And you have convinced me that this grey area seems quite important to some people. I guess some people have felt hated along their lifes by other people. Maybe some of them were in the minority in the school...They had bullies...other may had problem with some organized structures or with some particualr persn...so yes... you are right....I agree with you...

Me personally have lived recently a campaing of catalanophobia by the spanish hard right-wing where some media described every single day Catalonia in racist terms and using derogatory language.. always within the lgality (well most of the time). No incitement to violence.. just incitement to confrontation...

So I have seen these things a little bit from the side of the minority....It is ugly....and this with a lot of catalan people having a lot of power...I just can't imagine what is living the ame thing but powerless...shhhh

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 03:13:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And you, too! (none / 1)

Thank you, I find that a huge compliment if I can convince people about something.

And I understand where you're coming from and how it motivates you to be such an active alternative voice in this debate. We need voices like yours, for self-moderation and insights.

I'm an optimist: in the end, I think Catalunya and Spain will end up making fun of each other in a friendly way and respect that. Like the Dutch and the Belgium people do, while they once were united in the Dutch Republic. The key problem in this debate is one of a minority put in an underdog position. Like Catalonia in Spain, currently. For the Muslim community in Europe that's the case also, and millitant Islam is actually aggrevating it by seeding mistrust among the majority.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 06:34:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Muslim Cartoon Controversy: (none / 0)

In Germany a bunch of decades ago cartoons ridiculing Jews didnt exactly end up leading to anything good.

by observer393 on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 03:11:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Muslim Cartoon Controversy: What the Media Isn't Telling You | 78 comments (78 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Top Diaries

Annual Update of Global Climate Change Indicators

Elon Musk Creates New Party A.A.P.

Energy (and Other) Events Monthly - July 2025

City Agriculture - June 22, 2025

Recent Diaries

Dutch Bouwmeester: Terror Is Art

Trump A 100 Year Catastrophe for the West

Elon Musk Creates New Party A.A.P.

Trump & Musk's DOGE Savings a Texas Size Disaster

Rutte In Overdrive It's War

Israel-Iran War Escalates Thru Azerbaijan

Dedicated to the (late?) Arthur Gilroy

Yesilgöz the Pro-Israel Jihadist or Terrorist

Killing Ayatollah Khamenei Deserves Divine Revenge

Mamdani's Stunning Win in NY Mayor Race Exposes Prejudice

Belfast Riots and Troubles [Update]

Trump’s Iran Charade

Spaak a Socialist for Multilateralism, Against War

Israel Plays a Dangerous Game of War

Our Boots on the Ground Is New Demarcation Line

GHF-USAID Creating Terror to Conquer

Sinai Salafist Terror Shifts from Hamas to Islamic State

UN R2P Principle Not for Palestine

NATO Summit Starts with a Royal Dinner

Trump Got Intelligence Wrong Once Again

Occasional Series