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i think that freedom of speech is important, but it is not the issue with these rather childish caricatures. the issue is that the danes thought that freedom of speech includes freedom from the consequences of what one says. nowhere is there anything like that. not for nothing freedom of speech stops where one hurts the other person. libel, lese majesty or insults to religion are sanctioned in not few jurisdictions around the world (i'll reserve my opinion about that for another discussion).

of course anybody who so feels should have all the freedom of the world to go to the cathedral and accuse, before his congregation, the bishop of their town of being a childfucker and a reactionary moron, but they should be ready to face the consequences. most fights on schoolyards are because somebody calls somebody else names. most of these fights end in the office of the director and everybody looking a bit stupider than before. this is not different, just the consequences are different.

the wise thing to do would have been to apologize back when the issue was a minor idiocy comitted by some reactionary rag consumed by the danish proletariat. obviously politicians and the journaille dont count wisdom among their virtues.

the other issue is about governments using stupidity to further their control over the sheeple. some accuse european govts of deliberately pushing the issue so as to stoke the flames of hatred against everything muslim (those barbarians dare to burn our embassies because we have freedom of speech !) and make an attack on iran easier to justify. of course, that the saudis would use the issue to distract from their inept management of the hajj shouldn't surprise anybody either.

i dont know if all this is true but i see it as plausible. such behavior is natural to govts of all stripes. european and arab alike.

by name (name@spammez_moi_sivouplait.org) on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 05:09:44 PM EST
Take it off-line, now.

I'm not serious, name, but I just wanted to head-butt my disagreement on just one point: the right of complete free speech also entitles people to "hurt" others, as long as the hurt is emotional hurt and does not endager their lives. It's the other side of free speech: allowing tolerance towards the intolerant, and it's a tough one.

But yes, this has completely grown out of hand for many, many reasons and the Danes played their part in not solving it sooner.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 05:20:06 PM EST
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the right of complete free speech also entitles people to "hurt" others, as long as the hurt is emotional hurt and does not endager their lives.
*
This is just not true as far as I know. Have you heard about "emotional abuse" ...nowadays in progressive countries it's punishable as well as physical abuse...


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 12:17:19 AM EST
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And as far as I see it, it regulates freedom of speech to a degree. Every country is free to see fit how to categorise the range of hurt that is acceptible, and some countries are more sensitive than others. Which is why it is illegal in Germany to deny the Holocaust and why the idiots of Aryan Nations can happily work away in the US.
by Nomad (Bjinse) on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 06:11:10 AM EST
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libel laws?

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...
by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 04:54:03 PM EST
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No, not "libel laws"...We in Serbia and YU had other expression for what you suggest.
"Protection of face (meaning personality) and work (meaning achievements)" for the highest figures like presidents etc...
It was unlawful to criticize them.
But I am not talking about it. I am talking about emotional abuse of those who are weaker, like children, sick people, old people, sometimes even women and sometimes even men...employees, immigrants and people that are not in a position to fight on the same level...It very often is a court case and people are suing for "emotional pain that they have endured" because of somebody's else actions.  
As for me when I meet someone here who tells me that I came here from some "monkey country" I usually do not sue. I just answer back:" And you came from long line of convicts or at best floor scrubbing English servants and you did not advance much"...I have a big mouth and do not feel helpless but some people do...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 10:50:59 PM EST
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this is a comment.. indeed!!!

We must come back to discussing what is better: complete free speech no matter how racists the statements are, or clear guidelines forbidding what kind of speech should be banned...

I am waiting for your post....I will read it with delight :)

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Sun Feb 5th, 2006 at 05:38:20 PM EST
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