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Fashionable talk of a "European culture" is pointless and may even be damaging

Ideals animate every endeavour worth its salt. Robert Musil, an Austrian novelist at the turn of the 20th century, wrote that each of us has a second country in which everything we do is innocent. For Americans, that second country is an idealised America, where every child can become president and through which runs the yellow brick road. In European nations, Europe is that second country. When Franco's dictatorship fell, Spaniards shouted in the streets that "we are Europeans now." To peoples little affected by the appeals of God or country, the EU has become (to borrow a favourite phrase of Senator John McCain), "a cause greater than themselves".

But European leaders now want to go beyond idealism to assert particular qualities of Europeanness and make specific arguments about the EU.

(...)

It is true that, compared with Americans, Europeans spend much time thinking of, talking about and subsidising their high culture. But this does not mean they are inspired by it. Like the rest of the world, Europeans' cultural references are at least as populist and American--"Desperate Housewives", "Temptation Island"--as they are high-minded and European. Proxy measures of creativity, such as patent awards, the quality of universities, the numbers of films and videos, are all strongly in America's favour. It seems extremely unlikely that cultural vitality will somehow renew European ideals about the EU. For too many, it is America that is creative and exciting, not Europe.

Even if Europe were more stirring than it is, this would still not impinge on the EU one way or the other.

(...)

At best, talking about culture is a distraction from the harder task of economic reform. It could also become an insidious way of stopping Turkey from joining the EU (Turkey might meet the formal conditions of entry but not count as culturally European).

(...)

Worst of all, talk of Europe's cultural distinctiveness can be a way of attacking globalisation.

But Europe has its myth. Maybe it does not talk to you in Ireland, but it does work here on the continent: Europe is the reconciliation of France and Germany (and the relief of those squeezed in the middle). The problem of Europe is that it has brought in members that have not accepted this idea of reconciliation, and see intra-European stuff as a continuation of old fights in a new way.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 03:09:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Worst of all, talk of Europe's cultural distinctiveness can be a way of attacking globalisation.

Since attacking globalisation would be... a bad thing? Say hello, flat earth.

This doesn't help in stimulating me to pick an issue of The Economist...

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 04:55:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, I'd take issue with the Economist's analysis of culture.

Sure, the US dominates TV and movie output, but that is in part an artifact of language and economic circumstance. However, in the end, US programs are a certain kind of escapism. They represent fundamentally different things abroad than they do in the US.

(There is a diary hiding in this concept, but perhaps kcurie or someone is better qualified to write it than I?)

I really think the Economist is in danger of losing it's identity as an international magazine. It begins to sound more like a US magazine every day.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 05:15:51 PM EST
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Exactly. Their whole "don't talk about culture now that you watch Bruce Willis movies and eat at McDonalds" shtick is getting tiresome.

Action movies are not "culture", they are "entertainment".
McDonalds is not culture, it's energy supply management (the unsustainable kind, of course).

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 05:38:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
McDonalds is not culture, it's energy supply management (the unsustainable kind, of course).

About the only time I eat at a McDonald's is while travelling - desperate need for food, any food and little choice or desperate need for a bathroom and figuring I might as well eat something while I'm at it. As a result, most of my McDo spending comes in Europe and I believe I have never eaten at one in NYC (pizza and falafel shops serve the first requirement, Starbucks and other cafes the second one).

by MarekNYC on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 05:46:18 PM EST
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...but last week I finally managed to watch "Supersize Me", quite an entertaining watch. If you every had any doubts about what visits to MacDonalds do to you, they are all confirmed. After it, I swore an expensive oath on the blood of my forebears to never set foot again in a Mac - to be exempted only for extreme life-and-death necessities.

Not that I'm a junkfood-junkie anyway. After a youth of seeing a visit to MacDonalds or equivalent as something rare and special (probably the best way to start off), I've been phasing out, maximally visiting once a year, just to re-discover that teenage experience when the Mac was a shiny, exciting something. But when that shine wears off and you start tasting the food... MacDonalds can be a phase. I think Europeans have an advantage in this: they've a history with demanding high quality food.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 07:30:26 PM EST
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Yeah, similar experience here. Check my earlier comment in an older thread.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 04:16:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The awareness of responding to eating Mac-food (sweaty, bloated feeling) was the crucial thing. I endured the same reactions you described and that already placed me on the edge to stay out of the Mac. Supersize Me just tipped me over. And yes, good to know I'm not the only one.
by Nomad (Bjinse) on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 08:09:01 AM EST
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Beware! If you ever come to Lyon, you will be searched, and if any fast-food receipt is found, you will be sent back!


"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Sat Feb 11th, 2006 at 12:03:14 PM EST
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But Europe has its myth. Maybe it does not talk to you in Ireland, but it does work here on the continent: Europe is the reconciliation of France and Germany (and the relief of those squeezed in the middle). The problem of Europe is that it has brought in members that have not accepted this idea of reconciliation, and see intra-European stuff as a continuation of old fights in a new way.
I'm aware of the myth, but it is never mentioned in either the Irish or the British media. It's not really a part of the story. And I don't think it's part of the story in Europe either, though I could be wrong.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 02:26:15 AM EST
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Well, one of the key points is that this myth only powerfully works for France, Germany and perhaps the Benelux area. Maybe Italy at a stretch. For them there is direct or close geographical relevance.

Not to mention that as generations go on, the war loses some of it's old mythical symbolic meaning. It will mean something different to kids born today, so it is perhaps an imperfect myth going forward.

For others, be it the UK, Ireland or Spain or Portugal it's logical to see there needs to be something more inclusive, more involving, I think.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 03:11:43 AM EST
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The first and most radical vision of a unified Europe was dreamt up by Churchill in one of his speeches just after WWII (before he became the prophet of the Cold War). I think if pro-European Brits would dig it up and use it often (this is one of the many things Bliar with all his rhetorical talent failed to do), it could have been made relevant again.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 04:06:39 AM EST
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Hmm, I haven't read it in a while. But I vaguely remember thinking similar things.

But would you agree that thea "myth" that is German-French reconciliation is probably less compelling outside France and Germany?

And "avoiding the wars of the past" is probably less compelling for younger generations?

(My grandparents lived through WW2, but my youngest niece never knew them, so how can it have the same resonance for her?)

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 04:50:21 AM EST
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To be clear, "less compelling for younger ones" doesn't mean it cannot be used and shaped and pounded into their brains they way other myths are. But up to now, in a lot of ways we've relied on the message being self-selling. I think that is changing...

As to whether or not the myth should be "self-selling" ideally it would be, but it's hard to think of one that really is, anywhere...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 05:00:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Good points. Indeed I use "myth" as inspirational story, not necessarily something personally connecting or even real, but for a myth to work on those without close personal experience, it has to be made internalised.

I won't hazard to make a general point about my generation, but at least will mention one counter-trend: my generation has a renewed attention for just those personal stories of their WWII-surviving grandparents that our parents didn't have. The stories told can be manifold, but the not-heard-before horrors survived by a close relative could be the part making the most impression. (At least it is for me.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 05:25:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I think we are similar ages, my point was about our nieces/nephews/children as it were. The grandparents who were in the war are getting scarcer, soon they will be gone.

When I was young, some 50% of movies made in the 20 years preceding my birth seemed to be war movies. I think this has changed also.

WW2 is not gone from our culture, but it is fading and changing. Anyway, perhaps this is a diary topic if I get time.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 07:16:20 AM EST
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Exactly the way I feel it...

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 07:23:32 AM EST
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WW2 is not gone from our culture, but it is fading and changing.

And that's sad, because, personally, I've always found WWII to be the most interesting event in history.  I love listening to my grandfather's stories from the South-Pacific.  ("Once a Marine, always a Marine," as our family always jokes.)  The battles of Britain and Stalingrad are two of my favorites -- the former being arguably the most critical battle of the war, as far as US involvement is concerned -- though I always have trouble finding decent books on the two.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 02:28:29 PM EST
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