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Towards a Pan-European Society | 57 comments (57 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: Towards a Pan-European Society (none / 0)
Yeah, well, maybe I over-hyperbolized, which I'm quick to criticize others about.

Anyway, it seems like there might be three models, actually. Leaving off assignments to specific countries, they are perhaps the following:

  • Allow immigration, but don't encourage (or allow) integration.
  • Encourage immigration, and expect virtually full integration and indoctrination after one generation.
  • Invade your neighbor, and force him to obey your rules.

I was just pointing out that Rome and China used the latter model for a lot longer than any of our recent western methods.
by asdf on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 at 10:42:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Towards a Pan-European Society (4.00 / 2)
Two notes on historical hindsight.

There is no stable 'Chinese model'. What is unique about China is not existing for 3000 years, instead, to re-assemble every time it falls apart. China fell apart about a dozen times over those 3000 years, and had numerous 'lesser' crises even in-between. 'Lesser' in scare quotes because some of these were nothing short of a catastrophic collapse - with population decreases by two-thirds for example.

The Roman Empire in turn was on the verge of collapse several times, only those events seem less significant to a history book reader than a contemporary. There were times two centuries before the official end of the Roman Empire when there were multiple break-off provinces, rival rulers, conflict with another great empire, and multiple massive barbarian invasions at the same time - but latter-day readers know that Rome consolidated again, and can't be that 'scared'.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 05:36:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Towards a Pan-European Society (4.00 / 2)
I don't recognize these first two models in the real world.  Leaving out the "invade your neighbor" scenario, I see two other approaches:

  • Allow immigration, and encourage economic and social integration while respecting the immigrant's right to celebrate his/her original culture.  
  • Allow immigration, don't encourage economic or social integration, but expect the immigrant to adopt your belief system and culture anyway.    
by liz (lizbryant_at_yahoo_dot_com) on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 11:27:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Towards a Pan-European Society (none / 1)
asdf's first model described the approach of the Kohl government in then West Germany rather well. Not giving citizenship even to the children of immigrants and such. It was in part built on the mythology that immigrants are guest workers who'll one day return home.

His second model may partially describe France (but the other part is your second model).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 03:38:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Towards a Pan-European Society | 57 comments (57 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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