Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Display:
Towards a Pan-European Society | 57 comments (57 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: The Economist agrees with you (none / 1)
Well, one of the key points is that this myth only powerfully works for France, Germany and perhaps the Benelux area. Maybe Italy at a stretch. For them there is direct or close geographical relevance.

Not to mention that as generations go on, the war loses some of it's old mythical symbolic meaning. It will mean something different to kids born today, so it is perhaps an imperfect myth going forward.

For others, be it the UK, Ireland or Spain or Portugal it's logical to see there needs to be something more inclusive, more involving, I think.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 03:11:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: The Economist agrees with you (none / 1)
The first and most radical vision of a unified Europe was dreamt up by Churchill in one of his speeches just after WWII (before he became the prophet of the Cold War). I think if pro-European Brits would dig it up and use it often (this is one of the many things Bliar with all his rhetorical talent failed to do), it could have been made relevant again.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 04:06:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: The Economist agrees with you (none / 1)
Hmm, I haven't read it in a while. But I vaguely remember thinking similar things.

But would you agree that thea "myth" that is German-French reconciliation is probably less compelling outside France and Germany?

And "avoiding the wars of the past" is probably less compelling for younger generations?

(My grandparents lived through WW2, but my youngest niece never knew them, so how can it have the same resonance for her?)

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 04:50:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: The Economist agrees with you (none / 0)
To be clear, "less compelling for younger ones" doesn't mean it cannot be used and shaped and pounded into their brains they way other myths are. But up to now, in a lot of ways we've relied on the message being self-selling. I think that is changing...

As to whether or not the myth should be "self-selling" ideally it would be, but it's hard to think of one that really is, anywhere...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 05:00:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: The Economist agrees with you (none / 1)
Good points. Indeed I use "myth" as inspirational story, not necessarily something personally connecting or even real, but for a myth to work on those without close personal experience, it has to be made internalised.

I won't hazard to make a general point about my generation, but at least will mention one counter-trend: my generation has a renewed attention for just those personal stories of their WWII-surviving grandparents that our parents didn't have. The stories told can be manifold, but the not-heard-before horrors survived by a close relative could be the part making the most impression. (At least it is for me.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 05:25:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: The Economist agrees with you (none / 0)
Well, I think we are similar ages, my point was about our nieces/nephews/children as it were. The grandparents who were in the war are getting scarcer, soon they will be gone.

When I was young, some 50% of movies made in the 20 years preceding my birth seemed to be war movies. I think this has changed also.

WW2 is not gone from our culture, but it is fading and changing. Anyway, perhaps this is a diary topic if I get time.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 07:16:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Fading away.... (none / 0)
Exactly the way I feel it...

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 07:23:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: The Economist agrees with you (none / 0)
WW2 is not gone from our culture, but it is fading and changing.

And that's sad, because, personally, I've always found WWII to be the most interesting event in history.  I love listening to my grandfather's stories from the South-Pacific.  ("Once a Marine, always a Marine," as our family always jokes.)  The battles of Britain and Stalingrad are two of my favorites -- the former being arguably the most critical battle of the war, as far as US involvement is concerned -- though I always have trouble finding decent books on the two.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Feb 7th, 2006 at 02:28:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Towards a Pan-European Society | 57 comments (57 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
Display: