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Independent: Chernobyl: A poisonous legacy

Twenty years after a blast in the nuclear plant at Chernobyl spread radioactive debris across Europe, it has been revealed that 375 farms in Britain, with 200,000 sheep, are still contaminated by fallout

After two decades, the legacy of the Chernobyl disaster is still casting its poisonous shadow over Britain's countryside. The Department of Health has admitted that more than 200,000 sheep are grazing on land contaminated by fallout from the explosion at the Ukrainian nuclear plant 1,500 miles away. Emergency orders still apply to 355 Welsh farms, 11 in Scotland and nine in England as a result of the catastrophe in April 1986.

The revelation - in a Commons written answer to the Labour MP Gordon Prentice - comes as Mr Blair prepares to make the case for nuclear power in a forthcoming government Energy Review. The Prime Minister argues that nuclear energy would allow the UK to achieve twin objectives of cutting C02 emissions and reducing dependency on imported natural gas supplies.

But, just last week a damning report from the Government's own advisory board on sustainable development identified five major disadvantages to any planned renewal of Britain's nuclear power programme, including the threat of terrorist attack and the danger of radiation exposure. The longevity of the "Chernobyl effect" in a region generation of nuclear power stations, and going through a consultation exercise to try to convince the public that this is a safe form of electricity generation, we shouldn't overlook the terrible consequences if something does go wrong, "No one would now build a reactor as unsafe as those at Chernobyl, which were jerry built. Even so, I think a lot of people will be shocked to know that, as we approach the 20th anniversary of Chernobyl, hundreds of farming families are still living with the fallout."


by Fran on Mon Mar 13th, 2006 at 10:50:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why don't they even provide any numbers? What are the actual levels or radioactivity? From which components? In which doses? Any comparisons to normal levels in that location  or elsewhere? Nope. No relevant information is provided. Only vague innuendos and fearmongering.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 03:15:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Click on the link and read it. You would have to check the UK regulations on permissible levels of radioactivity, the point is that some sheep grazing on those farms still exceeed it. They name Caesium.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 03:21:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I did read it, but they do not give any NUMBER for what they are monitoring, and you will note that they don't even say that there are actually sheep above that level, only this:


But the odd one gets a high reading if it comes straight in off the fell,

Do we know if that happens in other areas? Do we know if this is an area of high naturam radioactivity? Can we compare the trigger levels to anything?

Absent hard information, this is just innuendo and fearmongering.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 03:46:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I did read it, but they do not give any NUMBER for what they are monitoring,

What use are those to the average Independent reader? But I already indicated that you just would have to look up UK regulations for the precise numbers.

and you will note that they don't even say that there are actually sheep above that level

You then quote out of context. What do you think "and has to be slaughtered." means?

Do we know if that happens in other areas?

Yes - application of the same emergency orders:

No sheep can be moved out of any of these areas without a special licence, under Emergency Orders imposed in 1986. Sheep that have higher than the permitted level of radiation have to be marked with a special dye that does not wash off in the rain, and have to spend months grazing on uncontaminated grass before they are passed as fit to go into the food chain.

Do we know if this is an area of high naturam radioactivity? Can we compare the trigger levels to anything?

Now I submit those are valid points, but as the article mentions peat bogs, I suspect natural radioactivity is out of the question, and accumulated Chernobyl contamination is the obvious first suspect.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 03:56:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What use are those to the average Independent reader? But I already indicated that you just would have to look up UK regulations for the precise numbers.

Are you being serious, DoDo? What use is actual, relevant, hard information to the average paper reader? Indeed. I suppose they coul also go and log in on the relevant website to read the report, why does the press need to mention it at all? And if the information is out there, why ask anyone to prepare a report at all? People can go make their own measurements, themselves, if they care about it.


You then quote out of context.

I quoted the ONLY instance in the article of a (indirect) mention of an actual exceedance of the (unknown) trigger levels.


I suspect natural radioactivity is out of the question

Prove it.

It should not be up to anyone else to prove the negaitve of this. It's up to you to prove such allegations. Your anti-nuclear stance is blinding you. Let's hold nuclear energy to the highest standards, but that means that criticism should also be made with some (ideally, the same) standards of transparency and verification.

That article of the Independent and your own comments totally fail any kind of reasonable standard for proof.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 04:08:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Prove it.

High natural radioactivity is usually associated with bedrock, magmatic or volcanic. Peat bogs are - soil. Heavy waterfall and no outflow makes them sinks for anything washed out of the atmosphere. Another point against natural sources is the short half-life of caesium.

I did some homework in another post, but I couldn't find much on Cs background levels in connection with either peat bogs or sheep in Britain. (I found one document with data on tested sheep from Northern Ireland with most below 1 Bq/kg and a maximum of 5.43 Bq/kg. I also found a worldwide survey for fishes, values ranged from 0.2 to 2.1 Bq/kg.) I'm certain if natural levels would be anywhere near that value, pro-nuclear sites would have the info. Instead, I find those mentioning the sheep issue stress the reduction in the number of affected farms.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:11:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually peat bogs have a lot of outflow: most of the things capable of growing in them have developed ways to compensate for the lack of essential nutrients because they've all been washed out.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:14:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you sure about that? I thought the nutrient deficiency of peat bogs is because they receive sediments only from the air (and not washed there from the mountains by rivers and creeks).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:18:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nutrient-poor and acidic, a bog is a peat-accumulating wetland comprised of acidophilic vegetation, particularly Sphagnum mosses species and ericad shrubs. Although bogs are water-saturated, they have virtually no inflow or outflow of mineral-bearing water. Isolated from the groundwater table, their only source of nutrients is precipitation.

Read here.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:24:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I guess Ireland doesn't have any rivers then. Most of the bogs here are on mountain sides that would have pretty good drainage except that the bogs are big sponges. I'm guessing that Wales is similiar.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:32:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Going to a qualified source, the IPCC, I find there are raised bogs and blanket bogs. But for the latter too, limited water outflow is a factor:

Heavy rainfall caused minerals such as iron to be washed out or leached from the surface layers of the thin soil, in a process known as paludification. These were deposited lower down in the soil profile where they formed an impermeable layer known as an iron pan (see Figure 2). As water cannot move down through such a layer, the soil surface became waterlogged. Under these conditions the accumulation and spread of peat was made possible.

There are nice figures for explanation.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 07:00:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You know I knew all that, right? I was thinking casually and from the point of view of some of my favourite plants. Note to self: don't comment outside your core competencies (such as they are) before first coffee.  And yes, it was a late first coffee.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 07:07:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You know I knew all that, right?

Well, I didn't, you saw me in the process of self-education :-)

My image of a peat bog was (a) a German low-land filled-up lake, or (b) a Scottish or Cornish hilltop moor (the versions I have seen personally, and the ones I read of as being used for 'atmospheric composition archeology'), so blanket bogs were a news to me.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 07:27:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That'll show you. DoDo has quite the knack to teach this lesson to others. Glad to have you joining in...
by Nomad (Bjinse) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 08:56:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Back to the original issue, regarding natural Caesium, the issue would be inflow not outflow, and only fens have inflow.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 07:22:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not that this is a scientific assessment of the paper's readership, but anyway...

Wikipedia: Readers of The Independent

One could say that a stereotypical 'Independent' reader is well-educated, a Liberal Democrat or perhaps Labour voter, anti-war and interested in issues about the environment. These are directly reflected onto the newspaper's style. The paper's editorial line favours the implementation of proportional representation, and tackling climate change. It often has critical front page spreads about George Bush and many articles by female journalists. Thus it is seen as an educated tabloid newspaper (a 'compact' newspaper).

The question is whether the paper's "educated" readership will put their concern over climate change above a data-driven discussion of the facts and a critical discussion of the sources.

I think the problem is that newspapers don't feel that they have to provide references to additional reading or to their sources more explicitly than a mention in passing.

It may also be an issue that the environmentally-conscious editorial line is an ideological position, and so it's ok to "fix the intelligence around the policy".

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 04:28:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome, I did some homework.

This is not at all scaremongering, but a regular theme, ever since the farm restrictions were predicted to be over in six weeks ack in 1986.

Using a March 2003 article, the number of farms under monitoring for Caesium contamination: more than 9000 in June 1986, according to a December 2000 BBC article just below 400 then, 386 in March 2003, 375 now. Threshold: 1,000Bq/kg. There is a special regulation to move sheep that has more than this to lower areas, away from the pet bogs, for a few weeks and wait for contamination levels to fall. The 2003 article also mentions that the then prospective new EU members wanted to impose an EU-wide threshold to their lower, 600 Bq/kg threshold.

More on farmland contamination tests in the UK here. No word about background levels, but on differences between soils, and isotopes.

Now, with a dosis factor of 1.3*10-8, 1000 Bq/kg would make 0.13 mSv per kg meat eaten, so one would have to eat a helluva' lot to get to the 20 mSv per year health safety limit, but not that much to get above, say, the German background level of 2.1 mSv/year, or even the German average exposure (i.e. involving non-natural sources like X-ray screeners) of 4.1 mSv/year.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 04:49:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks

So the trigger level means that you need to eat 30kg/y of that animal to get the equivalent to "natural" exposure. That's not an unsignificant quantity of meat, which suggests that the threshhold is pretty low, which is fine, but does makes it kind of irresponsible to talk about the "long lasting effects" of Chernobyl when only the "odd animal" ever gets to be above such a lowish level in terms of practical consequences.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 05:21:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sounds like a pretty long lasting effect for the farmers involved.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 05:29:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed the second half of the Independent article seems to be focused on the farmers' woes.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:15:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Supplementing Metatone's point, I note that what transpired from the older articles is that farmers have to apply this practice of moving (all) animals to low-lying fields so that they excrete the Caesium, which reduces the loss due to culled animals that have to be dumped to the "odd animal", but involves extra costs (transport, rent of another field).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:37:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BTW, I don't know if this was covered at ET ack in December: France hid info on effects of Chernobyl cloud

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 03:41:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I often wish The Independent (and other newspapers) added footnotes to their news stories. I'm tired of having to go on a wild goose chase every time some 'report' gets (mis)quoted.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 03:52:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why do Jerome and DoDo need to get into a tussle first before we get informed about something?

I thought that was their job-description. Chalk that one up under bad press reporting #... Oh, I lost count.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 05:05:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I mean, in today's world (with the ready availability of sources) it's just not good enough to say "a report commissioned by a government agency says...". At least give the title, or the author and date, of the report, and the name of the agency.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 05:09:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If papers such as the Independent wants to continute to appeal to their own critical, educated public, they should start re-inventing themselves quickly, or blogs will simply outflank them, so I suspect. Information is flowing far more freely these days.

If ET finds two or three more people with the capacities of Fran (although they are a rare breed), coupled to the expertise already here, I'd think there would be a very potential competitioner to the Independent.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 05:22:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I am beginning to think we should be using news stories increasingly as mere pointers and less as subjects of discussion themselves (unless we're interested in learning about --- and countering --- newspeak).

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 05:27:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You mean we take stories from the newspapers as an introduction and integrate them into diaries written with an expert analysis, and commenters pitching in? Does that describe you vision?
by Nomad (Bjinse) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 05:50:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We just don't have the person-hours to do that. What you describe already happens in the breakfast, and then some stories get turned into diaries (usually by frontpagers) where more discussion can take place.

What I mean is that news stories will tend to lose importance as primary sources. Agency wires, institutions' press releases, should be the primary material that is analysed unless the purpose is to analyse/debunk consensus newspeak itself.

News stories provide the necessary pointers to dig up the original sources.

The genuinely interesting content that newspapers provide, then, the little that is written by their correspondents, and opinion/analysis pieces.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:01:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think we're seeing that shift already happening. My personal preference, however, remain correspondent pieces - which some newspapers simply excel at. I find agency wires and press releases generally too flat and lacking context, so I think I see your point to use them as pointers and expand from there.

And I know that ET, in current status, does not have the reader's input for what I described. But a man can dream. Hey, in 5 years or so, the baby boom generation should have been completely retired and daily active on the web... (Although I wonder how progressive they are...)

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:26:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When I was in the US, I despaired at the pieces that El Pais' correspondents published. Not only I could usually pick out which agency wire they were mistranslating, but when they wrote something to put stories in context they usually got the context worng (or, rather, they didn't recognize the kool-aid and just passed it on). I wondered why they bothered. Considering that newspapers now syndicate their content internationally, you don't even need to have a permanent correspondent on the off chance that they'll get an interview with someone. Sigh...

On the other hand, Democracy Now had had the daughter of an El Pais writer as an intern, and they used her as a Spain-based correspondent when they needed it. That was neat.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:53:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When I was in the US, I despaired at the pieces that El Pais' correspondents published. Not only I could usually pick out which agency wire they were mistranslating, but when they wrote something to put stories in context they usually got the context worng (or, rather, they didn't recognize the kool-aid and just passed it on).

I stopped reading the international section of Hungarian papers around three years ago for similar reasons.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 07:02:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Your last anecdote exemplifies the kind of corresponding that I favour, and which I feel the world needs a lot more. But hey, that costs manpower, and that costs...

I don't see the point of "correspondents" who copy-paste from the wire. What an ill name for an increasingly outdated concept.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 08:53:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
frickin' reactionaries every last one. Believe me, I know.

Afew Chocolate Pie Technology ™
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:54:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Shouldn't that be "pancake with lemon and sugar" technology?
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 07:46:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
With Nomad, it's chocolate pie...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 08:04:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I mean, in today's world (with the ready availability of sources) it's just not good enough to say "a report commissioned by a government agency says...". At least give the title, or the author and date, of the report, and the name of the agency.

Talk of differing expectations. Yes, I'd wish every newspaper would do that, especially on the web, but I long ago gave up expecting scientific literature standards from even top-quality general media - or to expect the majority of readers wanting that. (For the majority their papers are still "newspapers of record".)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:29:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A funny thing is that several British newspapers boast a "newspaper of the year" title on their front page, except that they don't tell you which year. For The Independent it was apparently 2004, I don't know about The Times.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 06:31:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Times? 1804.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 07:46:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And they don't mention that it was the only newspaper of the year.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Mar 14th, 2006 at 08:42:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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