Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Display:
Peak Sugar! | 38 comments (38 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: Peak Sugar! (none / 0)
In order to make ethanol from plant material the process requires energy to distill the ethanol. In the US this is usually provided by natural gas (although a new plant has opened that uses coal!).

There is also some question as to whether corn-based ethanol yields more energy than it takes to produce it.

My question: What is Brazil using as fuel for its ethanol production? Has ethanol shifted the balance to renewables or is it just a slight of hand like in the US?

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 06:22:56 PM EST
Re: Peak Sugar! (none / 1)
As far as i could understand from this paper In Brazil most fossile fuel in the production of ethanol was replaced by bagasse (that's a subproduct of sugar cane fermentation if im not mistaken). They claim that under current conditions in Brazil, to produce 1 GJ of energy, 0,124 GJ of fossile fuels are required (transportation and other side activities).
by Torres on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 06:49:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Peak Sugar! (none / 0)
As my portugese is, well, close to nonexistent, could you check something for me? Do they include the actual farming in the energyconsumption?

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 07:05:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Peak Sugar! (none / 1)
On table 1 of that paper the items counted are the following: 1. Agricultural Machinery and transportation 2. Fertilizers and Pesticides 3. i dont know what that is, some technical jargon 4. Equipments and buildings (they counted the energy necessary to build the factories divided by the expected time of usage. 5. Chemicals and Lubricants used in Factory.
by Torres on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 07:22:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Peak Sugar! (none / 1)
My question: What is Brazil using as fuel for its ethanol production? Has ethanol shifted the balance to renewables or is it just a slight of hand like in the US?

The ones I've read about use the leftover processed cane as fuel - not much use for global warming reduction, but it does mean that it truly reduces the total demand for fossil fuels.

by MarekNYC on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 06:51:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Peak Sugar! (none / 1)
It also requires energy for the farming.

This is part of the reason why I am bugging Jerome for the specifics of the sugar market. If it runs on European subsidised sugar it might be a question of moving energy from Europe to Brazil in the form of sugar.

Of course if you use humans rather than machines for everything but the ethanol distillation you will probably end up with a energy net on paper. In reality much of it is of course moving energy from people to ethanol, which then can be used to drive cars. More convenient then having people carrying a palankin wouldn't you say?

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Mar 30th, 2006 at 07:02:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Peak Sugar! | 38 comments (38 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
Display: