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Italy Elections Open Thread 2.0 | 80 comments (80 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Not sure about Senators (none / 1)
I found an English version of the election law on foreign voting. They way I made sense of it (counting is governed by Articles 15 and 16), the overall 3% margin doesn't hold here! So South America seems set to send one Senator of an ex-pat party.

But what really gives me a headache is the distribution of seats in the two-seat regions. If I got the method right, the following strange thing happens:

Europe:

  • L'Unità got 53.4%, vote x 2/100% = 1.068, gives 1 seat and a fraction of 0.068 remains.
  • Second-placed Forza Italia got 24.1%, vote x 2/100% = 0.482, no seat given immediately.
  • The highest fraction that remains is Forza Italia's, so Forza gets the second seat!...

North and Central America:
  • L'Unità got 37.81%, vote x 2/100% = 0.7562, no seat given immediately.
  • Second-placed Forza Italia got 30.56%, vote x 2/100% = 0.6112, no seat given immediately.
  • L'Unità has the highest fraction that remains, so L'Unità gets both seats!...

If this isn't bizzarre then what.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 04:36:51 AM EST
OVERSEAS SENATE 92.75% COUNTED (none / 0)
L'Unione 44.21%, Forza Italia 21.26%, ASS.ITAL.SUD AMERICA 9.22%

No change (and none possible) in the seat allocation.

(And however I managed to mix up L'Unità and L'Unione...)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 04:53:53 AM EST
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Re: OVERSEAS SENATE 92.75% COUNTED (none / 0)
Can we celebrate yet?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 05:04:11 AM EST
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Re: Not sure about Senators (none / 1)
If the law allows expat parties with more than 3% to be represented, then those South American Italians might be kingmakers. I have the feeling that there might be another reading of the rules. It says "Any remaining seats shall be assigned to those lists for which the division calculations have produced the highest remainders". Note the plural: I assume this means that the first two seats will be given to the two parties with the highest remainders. Thus it will be 3-2-1, and those folks of "Ass. italiane in Sud America" would be in the drivers' seat. So I ask: what exactly are their politics?

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 04:54:28 AM EST
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Re: Not sure about Senators (none / 0)
See below: the next sentence uses plural, too.

I asked de Gondi about these parties too, but thinking the 3% rule tosses them he didn't addressed that point. I hope he is awake soon and can comment both on the (Italian) wording of Article 15 and this ex-pat party.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 05:14:12 AM EST
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Re: Not sure about Senators (none / 0)
The equal remainder part might be talking about cases of two parties claiming the first seat, or two parties claiming a second (or theoretically third etc.) seat. Anyway, I'm sure that this all will be cleared up by the final results.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 05:21:23 AM EST
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Re: Not sure about Senators (none / 0)
It says seats.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 05:22:40 AM EST
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Re: Not sure about Senators (none / 0)
I agree about the interpretation of the law, but not the numbers.  Looking at the figures on the La Repubblica website, I get 4-1-1. L'Unione gets one in each region, Forza gets one in Europe and the Ass. Sud America list gets one in Sth America.
by canberra boy (canberraboy1 at gmail dot com) on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 05:22:46 AM EST
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Re: Not sure about Senators (none / 0)
L'Unione gets one in each region, Forza gets one in Europe and the Ass. Sud America list gets one in Sth America.

But it is North and Central, not South America that gets two seats. If your interpretation is right, talos's account would be right.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 05:25:32 AM EST
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Re: Not sure about Senators (none / 0)
Bummer. No, I was wrong all along and you are right: South America has two seats!

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 05:26:49 AM EST
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Re: Not sure about Senators (none / 0)
...which means, if my interpretation would be right, it's 3-1-2, with the ex-pat party bagging both South American seats.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 05:31:34 AM EST
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Re: Not sure about Senators (none / 0)
Ah now I see what I counted wrong: I gave one seat to B. in S.A. when I thought that the 3% limit was in place, but didn't remove it when it turned out that it isn't. So 4-1-1 it is, with no possibility of change.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 05:33:30 AM EST
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Re: Not sure about Senators (none / 0)
Looking at La Repubblica it seems to me that it is Sth America that gets two.  I stand by my figures of 4-1-1, and note that kcurie has come to the same conclusion downthread.
by canberra boy (canberraboy1 at gmail dot com) on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 05:52:22 AM EST
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Re: Not sure about Senators (none / 0)
I interpret the application of the translation slightly differently for the North America situation.

The law says: "Any remaining seats shall be assigned to those lists for which the division calculations have produced the highest remainders."  I think that the significant thing is the use of the plural 'lists' and 'remainders', which implies to me that one seat each will be given to the two highest, ie L'Unita and Forza.

That also has somewhat more logic & fairness attached to it!

by canberra boy (canberraboy1 at gmail dot com) on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 05:04:37 AM EST
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Re: Not sure about Senators (none / 0)
I think your interpretation would leave the allocation process underdefined. At any rate, the next sentence implies otherwise:

In the case of identical remainders, the seats shall be assigned to the list with the highest electoral number;

The plural in "lists" could either be a translation error, or mean "those lists [in each overseas zone]".

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 05:11:17 AM EST
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Re: Not sure about Senators (none / 0)
Agree it could be a translation error.
by canberra boy (canberraboy1 at gmail dot com) on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 05:26:05 AM EST
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Re: Not sure about Senators (none / 0)
That also has somewhat more logic & fairness attached to it!

Logic, FAIRNESS?!?!?!?!?

Remember, this crazy election law was made by B to suit himself!

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 05:23:46 AM EST
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Re: Not sure about Senators (none / 0)
Logic and fairness may however be what a court will apply.  Also, it is unlikely that Berlusconi or henchpersons could have foreseen the way the numbers might fall in the overseas electoral regions to have dreamed up the plurality-takes-all interpretation as likely to suit themselves.
by canberra boy (canberraboy1 at gmail dot com) on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 at 05:55:50 AM EST
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Italy Elections Open Thread 2.0 | 80 comments (80 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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