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"SO either you think it has some existence independent of us and maths exists (our description exists independently...and we will eventually get to discover the maths that really describe the stuff out there... description and reality are the same...and both maths).. or we just describe what we see...never knowing really what is going on....
you think it has some existence independent of us and maths exists (our description exists independently...and we will eventually get to discover the maths that really describe the stuff out there... description and reality are the same...and both maths)..
or
we just describe what we see...never knowing really what is going on....
We can at the same time hold that
existence is independent of "us"
and also
that "we just describe what we see...never knowing really what is going on...." "In such an environment it is not surprising that the ills of technology should seem curable only through the application of more technology..." John W Aldridge
I exactly thought this way for a long time...
but when I finished physics I realized that there was a strong connection... we change whatever we perceive as we measure. The universe .. the way we describe takes a loop form ..we can not explain what we see without making reference to someone measuring and something measured...physics links extremelly one with the other...universe can not be independent form us..so only the two options remained.
I came to the conclusion that if our present narrative of the world indeed is right and it has no self-contradictions.. then it is purely a narrative or is purely the reality...
So I convinced myself that independence+description was not possible...may be I am wrong...I could certainly be wrong..Actually, new discoveries could change the narrative indeed.. and we could come back to have an independent universe and a narrative about it...As you may know some people are trying hard.
A pleasure I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude
Precisely.
I remain to be convinced, however.
By the way, your restatment of my views and your rebuttals offered show me that despite your claim:
"I exactly thought this way for a long time..."
you haven't in fact understood my point.
To understand just how and why you've missed my point, I can only refer you to either ThatBritGuy or Migeru, who shall be better able to explain it than I. "In such an environment it is not surprising that the ills of technology should seem curable only through the application of more technology..." John W Aldridge
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