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Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans | 61 comments (61 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
If sicker people go into system A than system B, System B's outcomes will be better.  Scientific clinical trials all over the world are carefully designed to screen out this bias.  From Mind the gap: England found to be healthier than America
However, Britain's universal health-care system shouldn't get credit for better health, Marmot and Blendon agreed.

Both said it might explain better health for low-income citizens, but it can't account for better health of Britain's more affluent residents.

"It's not just how we treat people when they get ill, but why they get ill in the first place," Marmot said.

I agree with asdf's comments above.

Personally, if I come down with an illness, I wanted to be treated in the US.

by wchurchill on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 03:53:58 PM EST
Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
I meant to say, our lifestyles have a lot to be desired.  We inflict a lot upon ourselves in America, on our health.  But in most cases, that is a personal decision.  You don't have to be overweight, or be stressed.
by wchurchill on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 03:56:03 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
You don't have to ... be stressed.

Unless you're poor of course.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 04:06:17 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
I meant that spiritually.  There are many examples throughout history of people having literally nothing, but being at peace.  we both, likely, know some people like that--I do.  we define ourselves, and our level of peace.  the west has become so materialistic that we tend to deny this today.  IMHO, that is.
by wchurchill on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 04:20:27 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
Being unable to live a "decent" lifestyle is intrinsically stressful: the definition of decent is of course an issue. There's a diary I have to write about that.

And please tell me you didn't mean that poor people would be healthier if only they accepted their lot!

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 04:38:31 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
didn't say that.
by wchurchill on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 04:39:40 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
Good!

It just sort of could sound that way if you were in both cranky at other people and spending half your attention on category diagrams (don't ask!)

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 04:41:18 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
Unhappines comes from misplaced desires. Accept your station in life and live in bliss. Hare Krishna Hare Rama...

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 04:40:39 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
Why did you skip "overweight"? Poor people have fewer choices in what they eat. Fast food is dead cheap (99 cent tacos, and 99 cent big macs). At supermarkets in poorer areas the produce is less fresh, there are less pressed juices and more juices from concentrate, or "juice drinks", with higher sugar content, the milk is of poorer quality... The "processed cheese food" and "processed meats" have higher fat content, the baked goods are made with hydrogenated oil... After I found out that Ralphs (an upmarket supermarket chain) owned Food4Less (a low-end chain), the few times I happened to find myself at a Food4Less I took it as an exercise in class awareness.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 04:29:37 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
I know, but it's easier to argue that a bit of thought and self-control would offset that. Not that one has time with two jobs and kids.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 04:40:00 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
If you have the income, you can substitute healthier, more expensive foods. But if you don't have the income you still have to get your 1500 - 2000 calories by eating  crap, or eat better food but be hungry.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 04:41:47 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 1)
I know that - and if you're working in a physically demanding job you need a lot more that 1500 calories.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 04:43:12 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 1)
But that's the thing, you don't have to be poor.
by Alex in Toulouse on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 04:47:50 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
Did you see my graph above that shows that Britons pretty much have the same obesity problems as the USA? So it's not just the health, it IS the healthcare as well.

That really seems something that you cannot admit to. Why?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 04:39:08 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
yes, I saw that a read it in one of the articles.  but obeisity is not the only life style factor that influences health.
by wchurchill on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 04:42:54 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
Driving everywhere and not walking enough also playes a role.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 04:44:07 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
Possibly more than obesity. It's possible to be fit and obese as well as unfit and obese. Obesity by itself may or may not be a massive risk factor.

There's a pretty strong correlation between obesity and unfitness of course.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 04:45:39 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
I knew of two main types of obesity, one which is risky, the other one not particularly (android vs genoid), but there are certainly many more.
by Alex in Toulouse on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 04:53:39 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
I may have commented before that my baseline weight while I was in the US was 10 pounds higher than in Europe... and I didn't drive. I took about 2 weeks two gain or lose the 10lb.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri May 5th, 2006 at 01:54:58 AM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
Alex touched on the different sorts of obesity, but your note is also a good one.  Compare (say) the obese truck driver with the obese NFL lineman.  The truck driver would have difficulty running 40 yards.  The NFL lineman can do it in four and a half seconds.  (I'm about ten pounds underweight, and on my best day I can't run it in that time.)  That connects with Migeru's point, as well.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun May 7th, 2006 at 12:49:40 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
That is because obesity is usually defined by Body Mass Index only, which assumes that everyone has the same body type.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun May 7th, 2006 at 12:52:43 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 1)
I agree with asdf's comments above.

Yet asdf's comment is wrong.  The 46 million number are indeed people without any insurance.  Not only that, it not a measurement of "at that moment in time."  It's uninsured for a whole year.  The moment in time snapshot brings the number of uninsured over 60 million.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 04:59:04 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 1)
To clarify, the 46 million people without health insurance number is the self-reported Census number, with various caveats and skewing factors. But that doesn't matter, because it's clearly too many people, and many of them are the least privileged in the country--although that is changing as the cost of individual insurance rises. It's a horrible system.

However, that is not what the article is about...

by asdf on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 11:38:46 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
I'm not speaking to the article, but to the comments.  It's funny to hear you say ours is a horrible system -- I didn't get that you held that view by your prior comments.  Perhaps, in this new light, my comment above was worded too harshly.  This being the case, however, what is it you object to in critiques of this system?

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 4th, 2006 at 11:44:06 PM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 1)
What I'm having trouble with is the America bashing tone that sometimes creeps into the ET discussions has crept in today.

The American health care system is stupid. Everybody in America knows that, and we're struggling to figure out what to do. Fine. So where's the discussion, for example, (on a European blog) about the mile long queue to sign up for a new dental practice in England? How are you going to convince Americans that this is better?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/4367717.stm

Or, off this topic, when Britain and France introduce an Iran-sanctioning proposal at the U.N. there is this mad scramble to explain how it's actually an unbelievably convoluted scheme to undercut the aggressive American Empire. The possibility that the European governments are also worried about Iran is taboo.

It's like "everything about America is bad and everything about Europe is terrific." I prefer to see a discussion about the positive and negative on both sides of the pond, which on most days is how it goes. But not today.

by asdf on Fri May 5th, 2006 at 12:00:02 AM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 0)
You know, I live in a relatively poor (thoght there is worse) borough of London and I had no trouble whatsoeaver registering with a doctor (GP). I even had a choice of several different practices within walking distance of my home.

I'm behind on my dental and eye check-ups so I'll try to register with an eye doctor and a dentist shortly. I'll let you know how not-horrible it is.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri May 5th, 2006 at 01:58:14 AM EST
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Re: Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans (none / 1)
Dentist is likely to be a problem if you try to register as an NHS patient - there is a general shortage exacerbated by recent changes to their contracts, one very bad aspect of the NHS.

Any major high street will have probably three or four opticians, any of who will offer NHS sight tests for the £15 fee, You do not have to buy any glasses or contact lenses from them, just ask them to give you the prescription which you can use at any shop. As well as the reading tests, they will also examine your eyes and do other tests as appropriate. They will take a family history to look out for some problems (if you are over a certain age - 50 I think - and your parents had glaucoma you get the test free). You also get the test free if you are over 65 or in one of other exempt groups and some get vouchers to help pay for them. Cost will depend on the frames and type of lens and coatings you chose. Obviously if you need bifocals or varifocals the cost will be higher. There are several major chains and they frequently do special offers - one chain does a "two for one" offer, handy if you need reading and distance glasses (though you have to pay for coating the second pair) or at this time of year they do free light-sensitive lenses instead. Shop around for the best deal for you.

If they detect any problems they will either give you a letter for your GP or refer you to a hospital opthalmology department.  

by Londonbear on Fri May 5th, 2006 at 03:25:27 AM EST
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Poor Britons healthier than rich Americans | 61 comments (61 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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