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But in my opinion, that would only serve them as they wished. If they only accept participation by means of this poll-cum-plebiscite, let's 'mis-use' it to annoy them with protestations. If we don't, they'll only get the answers playing by their rules. I still hold both tracks should be ridden on.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 at 07:18:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If they tell us the "poll" is the only way, then let's by all means use it as you say.

We have until 24 September to do that. First we could pool together our objections to the method and the manner of this Consultation.

I'd like some help with other languages: I think the French questionnaire is badly translated, and I'd like to know what the other translations are like.

Could you (and anyone else) take a look at the version in their language or a language they're proficient in?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 at 07:32:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
OK, I'll do a rundown once I get home (sometime after 17h CEST).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 at 08:00:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I took a first look at the Hungarian vs. English versions. The first impression is that the translator didn't really knew the corresponding Hungarian technical expressions (and was guessing).

Question 3 has some silly errors: it turned "investments in infrastructure and generation capacity" into something like "investments in infrastructural and generation capacity"; and "Increase the share of EU financial support" was translated by dropping "the share of".

Regarding question 4, I ask a question does 'competitive' there have the meaning "competition-based" (e.g. marketised)? If yes, another minor mistranslation. In the choices, methinks significant omission: from "Focus on cost effective savings of energy", cost-effective is dropped. In "Decrease dependency on imported fuels", 'imported fuels' becomes 'imports' (that would include electricity, but I don't see this difference as a big problem).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 at 09:00:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The first impression is that the translator didn't really knew the corresponding Hungarian technical expressions (and was guessing).

Bingo, same impression as the French version gave me. Whereas the Eng-lang questionnaire echoes the Eng-lang Green Paper, the French questionnaire didn't make use of the competent GP translation...

Q4 : I take "competitive" to mean "competition-based", rather than "in competition with one another". But the word is thrown around loosely by the GP drafters:

A truly competitive single European electricity and gas market would bring down prices, improve security of supply, and boost competitiveness. (p.5)

(Exploding heads please queue up, the nurse will see you shortly).

"Cost-effective" is important, it's really the core of that response: only do energy savings that come through cost-effectiveness studies well. (Imagine wizened gnomes in mountain hideout counting piles of ancient coins while outside the planet roasts).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 at 09:48:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
English vs. Hungarian versions, continued.

Question 6: this is the worst change so far. Above all in the second option ("Develop smart electricity networks, demand management and distributed energy generation, bearing in mind their potential to help at times of sudden shortage"):  First, the sentence has been turned around, with the original second sub-sentence changed to something like: "At times of sudden shortage, it could help to...". Second, two really bad cases of not knowing technical expressions: 'demand management' became something that can also be read as "income farming", and 'distributed energy generation' tunred into "divided energy generation"... In the fourth option, "likely shortfalls" turns into "foreseeable shortfalls", not insignificant.

Question 7, first option about "a solidarity mechanism to assist a Member State facing difficulties following disruptions of its energy supplies under emergency circumstances": emergency circumstances is dropped, plus loose wording: facing difficulties becomes "gets in trouble". Third option, 'emergency demand restraint' is horribly mistranslated, something like "keeping emergency income in bounds"... Fourth option, "early notice" becomes "early forecast"...

Question 8: nuance cut, "Europe, taken as a whole, promotes the diversification of energy supplies" becomes something like "Europe's energy supplies become more diverse".

I already wrote about question 9.

Question 12: "Disposal of nuclear waste" becomes "management of nuclear waste" (which is NOT the same!)

Question 14, last option, another horrible mistranslation totally changes the meaning: "Member States should be able to rely on at least three different supply sources" becomes something like "the Member States must purchase from at least three sources"...

(Next, I'll look at the German version.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 3rd, 2006 at 06:16:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
English vs. German versions: overall, much much better. Only three little problems with wording:

Question 6, sixth option: 'emergency disruption' becomes 'unforeseen disruption'.

Question 9, first option: " widest possible international actions" becomes "weitestreichenden internationalen Aktionen", I think should have been "weitestreichend internationalen Maßnahmen" (the first is about actions with the widest reach, the second about widest participation in the action, where in my reading the original English means the latter).

Question 12: 'Smart electricity networks' is translated as "Ausgeklügelte Elektrizitätsnetzwerke", instead of "Intelligente Elektrizitätsnetzwerke" (the first does mean smart, but not in place in this context, it has a meaning roughly like "well-thought-out")

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 3rd, 2006 at 06:43:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So I misunderstood you: you'd hold out the hope that they would change the form of the consultation if we protest in time?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 at 08:01:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I doubt they would now change the questionnaire. Though, a strong protest on the language issue might get some change -- you know, they might pull the "please write in English" bit from the web page.

What we could ask for is that people be given the right to send in freely-written contributions, as with the Biofuels Consultation.

Even if they don't, we should work on an energy platform for Europe and communicate it to Piebalgs and all concerned with as much publicity as possible.

In other words, if the Consultation is usable, let's use it. But in any case let's do the energy platform.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 at 08:14:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, and echoing kcurie, a reference to (y)our past participation in the Biofueld Consultation should be doubly beneficial: it will give them the picture that the EU already 'recognises us', and we could tell them that "the EU could do better in this other case".

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 at 08:22:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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