Euroblogs | 85 comments (85 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

My experience as a euro posting on american sites is not very positive I'm afraid.

Granted I'm a cynical so-and-so, but I found that my willingness to be critical of US foreign and domestic policy was not welcomed. It was a case of "hey limey, Shut the F--- Up, you're not from here, you don't understand why we are how we are, your viewpoint is neither valid nor welcome"

So, I have no intention of posting on an american site again.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Aug 26th, 2006 at 06:37:35 AM EST
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Re: Euroblogs (none / 0)

That is too bad, Most of the posts I've seen from foreigners on dkos has been pretty well received, but you'd know better than me. I certainly have been well-treated here and am sorry if some of the louts over here were assholes. They don't seem to know that perspective requires a look from two different vantage points.

"I said, 'Wait a minute, Chester, You know I'm a peaceful man...'" Robbie Robertson

by NearlyNormal on Sat Aug 26th, 2006 at 10:11:29 AM EST
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Re: Euroblogs (none / 1)

I'll second that, by and large. If you want to post on American blogs, get yourself an ultra-thick skin (everyone knows I've got one of those), and prepare to be surprised by the exceptionalism even of American lefties.

Honour where honour is due, though: I was generally well received on Digby's blog. Moon of Alabama (where I didn't post) seems very open too. But I don't post on US blogs any more. Apart from anything else, there's so much to do here.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Aug 26th, 2006 at 10:11:53 AM EST
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Re: Euroblogs (none / 0)

Jerome doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

There is a nice bunch of people on Booman doing it too. (From the Americas as well as Europe)

I think you might have trouble getting noticed because of the sheer number of diaries on Kos, but I've never seen anyone go after someone because they are European. Like, ever.

Of course, if you go there expecting Americans to be rude and exceptionalist it will probably be reflected in your writing and we Americans have a pretty good radar for detecting that.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Sat Aug 26th, 2006 at 12:25:56 PM EST
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Re: Euroblogs (none / 0)

Of course, if you go there expecting Americans to be rude and exceptionalist it will probably be reflected in your writing and we Americans have a pretty good radar for detecting that.

I hope the irony of phrasing was intended.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sat Aug 26th, 2006 at 01:45:27 PM EST
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Re: Euroblogs (none / 0)

we Americans have a pretty good radar

What do you know, "we Europeans" too...

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Aug 26th, 2006 at 04:27:15 PM EST
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Re: Euroblogs (4.00 / 3)

There's something that needs to be said about how internet forums work. They all have a narrow set of accepted norms, this place included. Deviation from those norms will cause problems for the poster. To their credit the people here are very cordial, so on the occasions where I have skitted the edge of the local norms I wasn't told to "f*** off and die" or other such nonsense which can be common elsewhere.

I think people forget or downplay the fact that internet forums are used for social purposes just like real "forums" in meatspace (the local coffeeshop, hobby groups, book clubs, etc). The average poster doesn't read or participate to debate and learn only - they are looking for approval, acknowledgement, and friends as well (I certainly enjoy getting 4's for my comments). Just as in meatspace, it takes time to gain acceptance from the broader community, and before that happens feelings of isolation and indifference can be very common.

Americans do differ in that Europeans and Russians are much better conversationalists and are generally better at arguing. Arguing is a lost art in America. The odd co-evolution of conformity and individualism in our culture has led to a view that to argue with someone is to attack them at their very core. When the extra step of removing the face to face interaction is taken things can get quite ugly.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sun Aug 27th, 2006 at 12:22:07 AM EST
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American sites (4.00 / 2)

I'll obviously have to disagree with this. My experience on dKos has been mostly positive, with only the odd hostile comment, even if there are sometimes surprising disagreements, on economic issues for instance (where kossacks are to a surprising extent to our right).

Always try to get a clarification before you take any comment as an attack or an insult, you'll be amazed at how much civility this brings into the discussion.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Aug 26th, 2006 at 11:51:15 AM EST
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Re: American sites (none / 0)

Helen's experience wasn't mine. I didn't get insulted. But I didn't find much interest in what a non-American might have to say -- even when the topic was ostensibly something like the health service in different European countries. Now it's true I have never posted a diary on DKos, and things might have been different there. Might.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Aug 26th, 2006 at 04:34:12 PM EST
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Re: American sites (4.00 / 2)

My views about Americans and non-Americans on the net are colored by having spent the past three years of regular attendance at The Guardian talk board. There is a substantial group of Americans who have invaded the place for the entertainment value of picking fights with the "Euro lefties". It is not hard to find similar people on US based web sites. Even for people with liberal domestic politics there is a pervasive attitude of American exceptional ism that has been dumped into us from the cradle. I think the the Rest of the World is thoroughly sick and tired of it.

by Richard Lyon (rllyon@gmail.com) on Sat Aug 26th, 2006 at 05:03:37 PM EST
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Re: American sites (none / 1)

Well, "exceptionalism" can cover a range of things. It can be aggressive (the kind you mention on The Guardian), or it can be naive -- meaning spontaneous, unthinking, "innocent" in the sense not meaning any harm. And shades in between. But whatever shade, it's a considerable obstacle to communication.

And it's something that, over time, I thought would lessen. Looking back, young Americans of the Vietnam era I knew were (it seemed) more critical of the American Way (of life or whatever), less imbued with the unexamined conviction that there was just one natural way of doing things, than Americans now. In other words, things don't appear to have improved, meaning that America has remained as isolated as ever. What I sometimes get is the impression (and, please, this is not some superior, elitist, condescending, arrogant European position, and it is not coming from any certainty that the EU is a miracle-working solution to anybody's problems) of an American regression, by which I mean that (despite hi-tech etc) America has missed a train somewhere.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Aug 26th, 2006 at 05:32:15 PM EST
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Re: American sites (4.00 / 2)

As one of those Americans who was young during the Vietnam era, I often feel that the train is headed in the wrong direction. As a nation and a society we did not not learn what we needed to learn from Vietnam and that has led us into a similar quagmire. Even though a growing number of Americans are beginning to get the smell of quagmire in their nostrils they are mostly sitting there saying how could this have happened to us. When someone attempts to explain that, the response is predictably defensive.

by Richard Lyon (rllyon@gmail.com) on Sat Aug 26th, 2006 at 05:52:55 PM EST
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Re: Euroblogs (4.00 / 3)

As an American who is critical of American society on some fundamental issues that go beyond the particular party in power, I have had somewhat similar experiences. You can't knock the system or The Way Of Life. However, there is also a particular strain of xenophobia that describes your experience.

European sites to me are something more than bring just non-US sites. By their nature they are compelled to be international sites. I can't think of much on which Europeans stand united. What I seek is an opportunity to escape the claustrophobia of any body's nationalism.

by Richard Lyon (rllyon@gmail.com) on Sat Aug 26th, 2006 at 01:01:25 PM EST
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Re: Euroblogs (none / 1)

What I seek is an opportunity to escape the claustrophobia of any body's nationalism.

If there's one thing that makes me want to believe in and support the European project, it's exactly that.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Aug 26th, 2006 at 04:40:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Euroblogs | 85 comments (85 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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