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Sure, but Israel destroying the infrastructure is hardly the only thing that prevents the Palestinians from developing their economy.

Lebanon has been more successful developing their economy in the 90s than Palestine was in the 90s.

What drives me nuts is this constant focus on the US and Israel.
Why do you focus on them?

I never said that the US or Israel are not creating problems. But they are not the only ones to blame for the misery in the Arab world. I am sure you agree. However, in most of your comments, Migeru and Colman and others, you bring up US and Israeli wrong doings. If I may be frank: That is boring.

Can we also talk about Europe's faults and what Europe could do better?

by Joerg in Berlin ((joerg.wolf [AT] atlanticreview.org)) on Thu Sep 14th, 2006 at 09:35:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The first thing that prevents the Palestinian from developing their economy is the fact that they are under military occupation, and destruction of infrastructure is a pretty big stumbling block.

On Gaza, the EU has been extremely engaged, and provided lots of financial and diplomatic support. Remember the Madrid summit and the Oslo agreements? It so happens that, on Gaza, Israel plays a major role. It also happens that the US does too. I don't focus on them, but they're part of the picture, and not exactly in the background either. I have brought up what I think the EU has and has not done, as has DoDo.

I have also given some of my opinion of what Europe does and should do, and its failures. You chose to react to an afterthought mention of UNIFIL, and to the issue of the Mohammed Cartoons. How about

Europe is trying to engage everyone in the Middle East instead of lecturing countries and peoples about values and democracy, endorsing war and occupation, or getting involved in an escalation of diplomatic snubs. The biggests recent failure of European Middle-East policy was getting dragged into an embargo of the Palestinian Authority's democratically elected government.

...

There is also the Alliance of Civilisations sponsored by Annan, Erdogan and Zapatero.

How's the Euromediterranean Partnership doing? I don't really know, I should read everything under that link.

The fact is, the US' middle-east policy is a big part of the problem. What is the Eu doing about it? Rolling over, containment, maybe stalling with the Iranians so Bush doesn't have a clear opening for another war.

Good things, bad things, and what should be done.

Seriously, Spain was the only EU country to send its foreign minister to Syria during the Lebanon crisis. Things are being done on the diplomatic level. It takes time. I am getting bored with you coming in and screaming "WHAT SHOULD EUROPE DO?" "WHAT IS EUROPE DOING?"

Then again, "Europe" is not monolithhic. One of the problems is that it is actually hard to formulate 1) what is Europe's interest; 2) what is Europe actually doing as a unit [never mind which of the various definitions of "Europe" to use].

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 14th, 2006 at 09:48:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In addition, when I complain that Europe tacitly supported the Algerian military's suspension of the electoral process, your position seems to be that it was fine (what else could we have done?) and that the civil war and its hundreds of thousands of dead and exiled in the 1990's was an acceptable detour on the road to democratisation since the end result has been free elections with no strong islamist parties in the last 5 years.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 14th, 2006 at 10:25:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sure, but Israel destroying the infrastructure is hardly the only thing that prevents the Palestinians from developing their economy.

Nobody said it was.

What drives me nuts is this constant focus on the US and Israel.

Because they're part of the problem. And when the topic under discussion is, as it often is, the Israeli-Arab conflict it's sort of hard to avoid them.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 14th, 2006 at 09:53:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sure, but Israel destroying the infrastructure is hardly the only thing that prevents the Palestinians from developing their economy.

Total economic blockade, barring off farmland behind the Wall, disruption with checkpoints inside the West Bank also have something to do with it, don't you think?

Why do you focus on them?

Because they are there, and because you started your diary with Fischer bringing up the matter.

Can we also talk about Europe's faults and what Europe could do better?

I did talk about both. I think your criticism is partly justified when considering the sub-thread on the Danish cartoons controversy, but if you are interested in Europe's faults and what Europe could do better, you could have responded to my lines on integration or past terrorism in Europe or UNIFIL.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Sep 14th, 2006 at 09:56:05 AM EST
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