Elections in Sweden | 41 comments (41 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Elections in Sweden (none / 0)

Could the Pirate Party take advantage of this lack of perceived issue in the work society to gain votes on internet, privacy, IP & citizen issues?

by Laurent GUERBY on Tue Sep 5th, 2006 at 05:10:30 PM EST

Re: Elections in Sweden (none / 1)

Low participation could help them get over the 4% threshold, too.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 5th, 2006 at 05:13:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Elections in Sweden (4.00 / 3)

Well, the GOTV effort is going to make or break it for the Pirates. Could put them over the 5% line. Parrots can do the work of 30 disaffected canvassing twentysomethings. Let's just hope the Pirates' base doesn't become too engrossed in their downloads and forget to go to the polls! Aaargh!

</snark!>

Go Pirates!

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Tue Sep 5th, 2006 at 10:32:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Elections in Sweden (none / 0)

Now, online voting, that'd be something ...

by Number 6 on Mon Sep 18th, 2006 at 06:53:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Elections in Sweden (4.00 / 2)

No, I don't think so. Or rather I am sure about it. They will not get in. For one, they have a weak party structure that seem to have some shady people involved.

But the main reason is that people don't consider their issues relevant.

File sharing/piracy. Everyone already does it and know it would be political suicide by the elites if they tried to stop it. Anyway, the elites can't do it even if they wanted.
Privacy and citizen rights issues. People don't want this. They want to reduce violent crime, and maybe pre-empt terrorism in Sweden.

One must understand that most Swedes view the state completely differently than in people do in for example the US. People generally trust the state. The state is a good grandfather or uncle, not a harsh oppressor. This likely have cultural and historical reasons.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Tue Sep 5th, 2006 at 05:42:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Elections in Sweden (none / 0)

What are the polls saying?

by Laurent GUERBY on Wed Sep 6th, 2006 at 02:42:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Elections in Sweden (none / 0)

The Pirate party is small enough to be contained within the "other party" category in polls. That category is 4.8%, of which the Sweden Democrats get 2.9%.

by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Wed Sep 6th, 2006 at 02:51:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Elections in Sweden (none / 0)

Thanks!

by Laurent GUERBY on Wed Sep 6th, 2006 at 05:30:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Pirates (4.00 / 2)

It is ok if most Swedes view the state as a good grandfather or uncle, we are aiming for the others. Our aim is not the majority of the votes it is to get more then 4 %.

We (right now) have 8754 members, and are thus bigger then the green party. I think we have a higher percentage of members that actually does something then most parties, but I have nothing really to back this up with. We do lack economic resources for big campaigns but we make do with what we got.

Our party structure is a wiki party structure, not to be confused with a weak one. And what shady people do you refer to? Do you mean people who write comments at suspect websites while hiding behind odd handles? :P

From campaigning it is quite clear that we have a substantial support among young voters, which not coincidentally matches our demographics in the party. Young tech-savvy voters are also not likely to be polled by the opinion polls as they make their sample calling oldfashioned telephones.

I am not sure how it will work out but I am sure that we will beat medias expectations.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Sep 6th, 2006 at 05:33:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirates (none / 0)

Let me see if I get this right: you cannot get seats unless your list gets 4% nationwide or 12% in a single district, but then you have a top-up PR system, so 4% of the vote should translate into 4% of the seats. There are 349 seats, so if Piratpartiet makes it they will have at least 13 seats.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 6th, 2006 at 05:39:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirates (none / 0)

Kind of yes. But here is the real answer of how seats are allocated for parliament:

The Equivalating(???) odd numbers method or the fun system for counting votes in Sweden. (translation from Swedish wikipedia entry)
Only parties who achieve at least 4% nationally participate in the distribution of seats in parliament. The exception is for a party which gets 12% in a district which gets to participate in distribution of seats in that district but not anywhere else.

Comparison numbers for the parties are computed. The party with the largest comparison number gets the next seat to be allocated for an election district. The first comparison number for all parties is computed by dividing their respective number of votes by 1.4. After a party has been allocated a seat by having the largest comparison number, a new comparison number for that party is computed by dividing their number of votes by 2*n+1, where n is the number of seats already allocated that party. This process is repeated until all seats in the district have been allocated. The locally fixed seats (the seats allocated to each election district before the election takes place) are allocated to parties according to this model. Then there are some number (39) seats allocated nationally to achieve proportionality. This is also done according to the above method. (Can't find which comparison numbers they start with for this? Do they add up the final comparison numbers for all the districts for each party?) Once these "national proportionality distribution" seats have been allocated to the parties, they are assigned to election districts by using the final comparison numbers from the first local allocation. Except if the party didn't get any seats in a district. Then its comparison number is set to the number of votes gotten, not that number divided by 1.4.

by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Wed Sep 6th, 2006 at 06:07:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirates (none / 0)

And this system slightly overcompensates big parties, in effect the Social democrats.

But the answer to Migerus question is probably at least 14 seats (there has been some calculations in our forums).

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Sep 6th, 2006 at 06:16:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirates (none / 0)

Example, stolen from same wikipedia article as above:
5 seats to allocate:

Number of votes	Party 1	Party 2	Party 3	Party 4	Party 5
Total	24 657	18 312	11 976	10 824	8 137
Comparison number	17 612.14	13 080	8 554.286	7 731.429	5 812.143
	One seat
	8 219	13 080	8 554.286	7 731.429	5 812.143
		One seat
	8 219	6 104	8 554.286	7 731.429	5 812.143
			One seat
	8 219	6 104	3 992	7 731.429	5 812.143
	Two seats
	4 931.4	6 104	3 992	7 731.429	5 812.143
				One seat
Total seats	2	1	1	1	0

by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Wed Sep 6th, 2006 at 06:25:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirates (none / 1)

Wikipedia: Higher Averages Method

The highest averages method is one way of allocating seats proportionally for representative assemblies with party list voting systems.
The highest averages method requires the number of votes for each party to be divided successively by a series of divisors, and seats are allocated to parties that secure the highest resulting quotient or average, up to the total number of seats available. The most widely used is the d'Hondt formula, using the divisors 1,2,3,4... The Sainte-Laguë method divides the votes with odd numbers (1,3,5,7 etc). The Sainte-Laguë method can also be modified, for instance by the replacement of the first divisor by 1.4, which in small constituencies has the effect of prioritizing proportionality for larger parties over smaller ones at the allocation of the first few seats.
Another highest average method is called Imperiali (not to be confused with the Imperiali quota which is a Largest remainder method). The divisors are 2,3,4 etc. It is only used in Belgian municipal elections.

Spain uses the D'hondt method, which is the one most biases to favour large parties, with a 3% threshold at the constituency level and no top-up for overall proportionality.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 6th, 2006 at 08:29:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirates (none / 0)

Great Britain (not Northern Ireland) uses the d'Hondt system in European elections, with small seat magnitude constituencies (3-10 seats) and no attempt at proportionality on the national level.

Combining the above with ordered party lists where the voters cannot affect the order of candidates on a list, it is about the worst proportional election system which could have been introduced. It is however better than first past the post.

How does the Swedish electoral system decide which candidate on a list is elected? Is it up to the parties or do the voters decide the order of individual candidate as well as choosing a party?

by Gary J on Wed Sep 6th, 2006 at 09:57:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirates (none / 0)

The parties decide the order of the candidates on the list, but voters can override that by marking another candidate than the default ones.

For example, one can mark number 18 and that one will then be prioritised. A candidate needs like 10 % of the votes that a certain party gets in a certain area to override the party list order.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Thu Sep 7th, 2006 at 08:42:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirates (none / 0)

Thanks for the explanation. Sweden has a better system that the British PR one, which is as it is because Labour did not want its candidates to compete against each other.

by Gary J on Thu Sep 7th, 2006 at 02:47:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirates (none / 0)

I think it is 8% in elections to riksdagen and the EU parliament, and lower limits to local assemblies.

It should be noted that fixed (and rather high) limit in percentage of the votes has produced some odd results. Consider if one party takes one seat in an area and another takes ten. It is then more likely that the small partys one seat will be filled by someone who has got marked up then it is that the big party gets any candidate marked up. At least this has been the experience in Sweden. How come? Simple, because the limit is high it is seldom candidates reach above it and when there are many prominent candidates (like in the big party) it splits the marks over many candidates.

I would prefer the finnish system were (IIRC) that you place your vote on a candidate, that vote also falls to respective candidates party, seats are distributed to parties according to PR and then party seats are filled with candidates in accordance to number of votes.

But mostly I prefer to have a good and strong referendum instrument like in Switzerland. Then I guess what way you chose the parliament would not matter as much.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Sep 7th, 2006 at 04:57:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirates (none / 0)

Great Britain (not Northern Ireland) uses the d'Hondt system in European elections, with small seat magnitude constituencies (3-10 seats) and no attempt at proportionality on the national level.
Combining the above with ordered party lists where the voters cannot affect the order of candidates on a list, it is about the worst proportional election system which could have been introduced. It is however better than first past the post.

This is the system used in Spain, and the consensus is also that it is a really bad system. First of all, the constituency is the province, electing anywhere between 1 and 34 seats. This leads to overrepresenting small constituencies. Then the D'Hondt system favours large parties, and we have closed party lists.

Currently my preferred voting system is an additional-member system with single-transferable vote. Combining this with open party list for the top-up seats would be the best of all worlds.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 7th, 2006 at 04:10:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pirates (none / 0)

In my experience (having not lived in Sweden for 7 years - wow, where did the time go?), privacy, civil rights, etcetera is too much work for the average Swede. (Vegetable/Muppet show jokes here).

I don't mind the "all for one" spirit still evident in many places, but there has to be room for individuals as well. (And, no, the right doesn't have any kind of solution to that either. They just want a different kind of top-down controlled society.)

Looking to the future, does anyone know how long it took the greens (MP) to get in? Two-three elections?

by Number 6 on Mon Sep 18th, 2006 at 06:50:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Elections in Sweden (none / 0)

File sharing/piracy. Everyone already does it and know it would be political suicide by the elites if they tried to stop it. Anyway, the elites can't do it even if they wanted.

But it is still illegal and just today two more got sentenced to fines. Source: Newspaper in swedish.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Sep 6th, 2006 at 11:37:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Elections in Sweden (none / 0)

Two people out of 1 million. To tell the truth, filesharing is statistically one of the safest things imagniable. ;)

And who cares if it's illegal? If a law is morally wrong one does not have to follow it and if the probability of getting caught is close to zero the illegality hardly matters.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed Sep 6th, 2006 at 11:41:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Elections in Sweden (none / 0)

In total I think we are up to five...

You wrote

it would be political suicide by the elites if they tried to stop it

And I reccon making downloading illegal last summer was an attempt to stop it. We are just out to prove you right on the political suicide thing...

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Sep 6th, 2006 at 12:09:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Elections in Sweden (none / 0)

They are not trying to stop it. They are just writing useless laws to placate the Americans and music business interests. They have no intention to stop filesharing, they only want to look good for the above mentioned interests.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed Sep 6th, 2006 at 01:40:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Elections in Sweden (none / 0)

They will start being much more agressive after the elections, just like in France, they're not that stupid, they've obviously bargained with the governments involved: just a few before to show it's "bad", full scale after elections.

Remember it's not the government but the USA labels that sue directly citizens.

by Laurent GUERBY on Wed Sep 6th, 2006 at 03:50:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Elections in Sweden (none / 0)

Who is the government supposed to look good in front of? The Americans and the entertainment multinationals, or the Swedish public?

Also, when people have to go to jail for a useless law, don't you think there's something wrong somewhere?

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 7th, 2006 at 04:11:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Elections in Sweden | 41 comments (41 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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