Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Apparently nuns do teach in public schools.  At any rate, the ruling and an earlier ruling in Baden-Wurttemberg both specifically mention nuns' habits, it's not just something I made up.

Oh, I see that, but one thing does not stop the other from being true. Germany is federal - the states make these laws. The IHT is unclear on the public versus catholic (which may also get state funding but is not necessarily under formal state control, just as would be the case for an Islamic school) issue, as is your new link. Could be that the law language in Baden-Wurtemburg is different than in Bavaria, which in the latter case may make a formal distinction between purely secular, state-run schools, and religious schools with state funding.

Don't see anything in what you've linked to to suggest otherwise.

And this is hugely important. In France, you can't wear hijab or kippah to public school, but you can wear them to orthodox jewish or islamic schools if you like, or catholic schools for that matter.

That this is discriminatory is therefore, to me, still unclear.

'Course, try being atheist (apostate) in most of the Islamic world, or Christian in Saudi Arabia, if you want to see real discrimination based on creed.

...if that is true (and I have been presented with no evidence of it here) then the girls of whom it is true almost certainly have other issues at home that are more significant than what they wear on their heads.

Well, I don't have much time to xlate, but that ni putes ni soumises site will give you plenty of evidence it happens. This is a large part of what they are all about (well, that and the gang rapes that happen when a girl doesn't wear the hijab, or drop out of school and clean house, or marry someone she doesn't want to, or dates a non-Muslim).

Spend any time in a part of Europe (my family is in La Seyne/Mer, very large Islamic population) with large Islamic population, and you'll see it.  For instance, my best friend there teaches in a Lycee Technique in La Seyne, he sees it in class every day.

That is why there is this law.

And just because the girl does have bigger issues with her family does not mean that this is not an issue for larger society ... are you implying that since it is a family issue, there's not issue for the rest of us?

And if you are right, this isn't our problem, maybe it is time to revisit the purpose of allocations familiales, no?

Solidarity. We are in solidarity with the women who do not want to live under this bs.

If all men and women are equal, regardless of race or other factors, then why does it matter if a woman "demarcates" herself as belonging to a specific group?  

When that demarcation implies submission, generalized submission of all women, which is not conforming to Western values which have been fought for for centuries, then it's a problem.

If she's required to disguise her identity in order to get a job, then she's not really equal.  Why not just make everyone dye their hair blonde and change their names to Inga?

You are confusing race here (dye hair and change name). Race has nothing to do here. Clothing choice is not personal identity in the way race is. You can take off the veil, you cannot take off your skin. You can choose to name your kids Abdelkader or Pierre-Gilles too if you like. If I don't wear a proper suit and tie to an interview, I guarantee I don't get the job. If I have a pierced nose, even less. Or a tattoo. So this is irrelevant.

Apparently because "Western society," whatever that is, doesn't want it to.

This smacks of very facile relativism, this statement here, and explains the attitude behind the opinion, I believe. I'm all for very spirited criticism of the West and Western values, but to say there's no such thing is not a serious point of view imho.

Veil as expression of (forced) submission will not be accepted, period. We've fought those battles and (mostly) won. No one feels like fighting them againt. Just as we fight for more an more gay rights, for equal pay and general gender equity for women, and other social issues we can't count on Islamicists to go along with.

Being different is not a crime.

That all depends on how you choose to be different.

A dope addict is "being different" too, after all.

The Bavarian law is discriminatory, full stop.

Sorry, but I'm just not convinced.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Mon Jan 15th, 2007 at 07:09:14 PM EST
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