Culture Wars | 61 comments (61 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Not a culture war like in the US (4.00 / 2)

I accept your first two points, which correct my oversimplifications.

As for whether one should call premillennial dispensationalism a form of Christianity or not, this is controversial. I know that most liberal evangelicals prefer to say it does fall under Christianity, but I think that is just because of the liberal predilection for inclusiveness. You should remember that fundies do not consider non-fundamentalists to be Christians. Thus, I think the tables should be turned on them.

I do not deny in the least that there are significant Puritan influences on evangelicalism taken broadly (the latter derives from the former, as far as I am aware) which, among other things, gave rise to the revivalist movements.

A bomb, H bomb, Minuteman / The names get more attractive / The decisions are made by NATO / The press call it British opinion -- The Three Johns

by Alexander on Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 at 03:58:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not a culture war like in the US (4.00 / 2)

I think this is a case of No True Scotsman. Throughout its history, CHristianity encompassed great ideological variation, though regularly 'reduced' in hunts for heretics. (BTW hereabouts, even Mormons are considered a Christian sect.)

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 at 04:09:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not a culture war like in the US (none / 1)

Very inclusive. Of course, Mormons like to present themselves as Christians, but this is controversial in the US. Personally, I don't see how anyone can think that the idea that a major revelation occurred after the death of Christ is not heretical, and thus places this sect outside the bounds of Christianity. (If Hungarians consider Mormonism to be a Christian sect, I get the impression that Hungarians do not take Christianity very seriously any more.)

At least the fundies do not say that they received any new revelations: just that they figured out the correct method for interpreting the Bible. Thus I would concede that there is no fact of the matter of whether fundies are Christians or not: denying that they are is something more akin to a political move.

A bomb, H bomb, Minuteman / The names get more attractive / The decisions are made by NATO / The press call it British opinion -- The Three Johns

by Alexander on Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 at 04:35:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not a culture war like in the US (none / 1)

Hey, over the past 2000 years, Christians used to battle over whether Jesus was a virgin or had Mary Magdalene as wife, whether Jesus was a human son of God or God himself or both, whether the Old Testament is the work of evil or the prediction of Jesus, whether private ownership is evil or should rich bishops and aristocrats be respected, whether there are multiple centres or was Rome ordained to be the single one, whether the assembly of Western Rome priests is the Holy Ghost and thus instructive in maintaining and developing the understanding of God, or should everyone be allowed provided that they go back to the roots, whether one priest (the Pope) is infallible and so on. A new revelation doesn't look that strange to me (especially considering the teologists of the Catholic Church and the gnostics), and as for heretic, hell yeah, all Protestants resp. Catholics would count as such, had either side won the 30 Years War or the earlier the Schmalkalden War.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 at 05:23:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not a culture war like in the US (none / 0)

A new revelation doesn't look that strange to me...

Let's agree to disagree. But there is the following problem.

Personally, I think that claiming a new revelation is one of the ways you step over the line. I haven't thought much about it and could be wrong, but according to your "dangerous" line of thought, one could argue that Muslims are Christians. After all, the prophet Mohammed accepted the Bible as the word of God just like the prophet Joseph Smith did, and Muslims claim, I believe, just as the Jews do, that they worship the same God as Christians do. The Unitarians are Christians, so Muslims are not disqualified for rejecting the Trinity. I don't know this for a fact (and don't have time to check Wikipedia because I have to go out), but it seems to me that since the Unitarians reject the Trinity, they must reject the divinity of Christ, too. That means, so far as I can see, that according to your line of thought, if the Unitarians are Christians, then so are the Muslims.

Gnostics didn't claim they had new revelation. They had their own gospels that were written at about the same time as the canonical ones.

A bomb, H bomb, Minuteman / The names get more attractive / The decisions are made by NATO / The press call it British opinion -- The Three Johns

by Alexander on Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 at 06:45:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not a culture war like in the US (4.00 / 3)

fundies do not consider non-fundamentalists to be Christians

That's absolutely true. To me it qualifies them for the term of sectarian rather than something other than Christians themselves.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 at 04:12:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not a culture war like in the US (4.00 / 2)

Well, mainstream European Catholics, Calvinists and Lutherans nowadays accept each other, but can be just as exclusive towards any other 'cults', be them some fundie ranters or harmless charismatic ravers or autonomous communities forming in their midst.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 at 05:01:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Culture Wars | 61 comments (61 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Top Diaries

Energy (and Other) Events Monthly - December 2023

by gmoke - Nov 28

Clean Energy Wire's Fact Sheet on Upcoming Dutch Election

by gmoke - Nov 12
7 comments

Top Diaries

Energy (and Other) Events Monthly - December 2023

Clean Energy Wire's Fact Sheet on Upcoming Dutch Election

Recent Diaries

Energy (and Other) Events Monthly - December 2023

NeXiT the Trump Era of Dutch PM Wilders

Erasure of Palestinians the Zionist Dream

21st Century Pax Americana and Violence

Dublin Far Right Riots After Knife Attack

Clean Break From Peace to War

Woodrow Wilson's Collapse and the Peace Movement

A Children's Sing-Along Annihilate Everyone In Gaza

Xi - Joe Launch a New Communication Probe

The Israeli War Hoax of 40 Beheaded Babies

If Palestinians Are 'Animals'? What Are the Israelis?

Gaza Atrocities and the UN Fail

Clean Energy Wire's Fact Sheet on Upcoming Dutch Election

Broadening the War to Lebanon and Syria-Iraq

Dishonest Hope and Trust In a Two-State Option

Gaza Massacre, Biden Funding Ethnic Cleansing

Dominique de Villepin Israel's Security Not by War

NATO Is Losing the Proxy War In Ukraine

Stealth Visit for Talks About Gaza Future

Universal Protests Condemn Biden and Israel

Occasional Series