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And here comes more personal attacks after the arguments. I'm not gonna bother with explaining why you are wrong and how you have misunderstood PPP with that attitude.
by freedomfighter on Thu Oct 25th, 2007 at 04:37:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Will you explain it to me?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Oct 25th, 2007 at 06:09:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sure. PPP is a way to measure how much produce you get for a certain currency in the county. It's measured by setting up a "basket" of products (usually not including very many Plasma TVs) and seeing how much they cost in the different countries.

PPP Exchange rate is the theoretical exchange rate you should have if each currency would give you the same amount of money.

I think JakeSs main misunderstanding comes here:

First, for most of the goods involved in subsistence, there is no global market, hence the assumption of equal prices is simply (and patently) false.

Sure. But that doesn't matter, since the point here is not saying what the exchange rates between two currencies should be, but the point is to convert the daily income into something that is comparable. And for that, PPP works just fine.

This is of course not perfect, but it's way better than just using currency exchange rates when measuring poverty.

by freedomfighter on Thu Oct 25th, 2007 at 09:15:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Right, my bad. PPP does not, in fact, depend on the exchange rates which are affected by the spot market. I.o.w., the PPP normalisation is independent of whether there exists a market or not. Mea culpa, and apologies for insinuating that you don't understand the concept of PPP.

I'll even admit that I flew off the handle a bit from being accused of dishonesty. That tends to piss me off. Nevertheless, I do not think that it would be wise of you to attempt to turn this into a discussion of who has been most polite in this thread. DoDo and linca would win that contest hands down.

Nevertheless, it is still true that PPP$ do not accurately reflect subsistence costs, which is the thrust of my original point, as the PPP normalisation includes many goods and services that are not necessary to subsistence.

It is, of course, possible to construct an appropriate normalisation, but that's not what's being done with the official numbers.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Oct 25th, 2007 at 10:11:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On another note, the goods needed to subsist in different countries do vary. In an economy where almost everyone practices subsistence farming, for example, there is less need for transportation than in a developed economy, if for no other reason than because you need to move less far to get to your workplace.

Thus, being able to afford a train ride in a poor country based on subsistence farming is not a major problem (at least compared to all the other problems subsistence farmers face), while in a society where the economic structure is based on thirty-km commutes each way, each day, inability to afford a train ticket is A Bad Thing. Precisely the same good. Wildly differing degrees of necessity.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Oct 25th, 2007 at 10:33:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I accuse whoever came up with the idea of measuring income distribution and calling that a measurement of poverty of being dishonest,

I accuse you who perpetuate this argument of having been suckered. :-)

People are NOT rich because they starve to death together.

Nevertheless, it is still true that PPP$ do not accurately reflect subsistence costs, which is the thrust of my original point, as the PPP normalisation includes many goods and services that are not necessary to subsistence.

Sure, but it's the best option we have until somebody actually make a PPP index that is done only to measure poverty. And to be quite honest, regarding how cheap subsistence goods like somewhere to live and food is in the US, I seriously doubt that the US is gonna come out any worse in the comparison...

by freedomfighter on Thu Oct 25th, 2007 at 10:46:21 AM EST
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