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The Swedes have it (lagom).  I know that it's a folk aphorism against the American Amish "All things in moderation." and the belief that one should be "plain" in the sense that they do not seek to distinguish themselves from others based upon their material possessions.

i was exposed to various similar concepts while growing up, (in the uk) such as:

discretion is a mark of nobility.

to be modest and self-effacing is the mark of a gentleman.

flamboyance is vulgar.

etc.

i think it was known as 'having class' (whatever your provenance), 'being tasteful', 'appropriate', whatever.

taken all the way, this could be dull, but still perhaps better than the flagrant ostentation we see flashed before our eyes daily!

a little dull is ok, if it means we can keep our habitat habitable...


'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Oct 20th, 2007 at 06:42:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think that this idea is English.

But there's a distinction made in the US between the nouveau riche and old money.  Part of which is that old money (see the Kennedys, etc)understand that part of their social role is to provide charity for those who don't have.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sat Oct 20th, 2007 at 07:06:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well, i wasn't raised in france, but it's interesting that what you describe was referred to as 'noblesse oblige' in england, perhaps revealing that there is no similar term in english.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Oct 20th, 2007 at 07:44:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know that it's that meaningful. for a long time the  english nobility were basically French, and the english language does grab terms from anywhere and adds them to the mix. Noblesse oblige is unusual, in that it isn't just assumed to be English and has kept its french identity.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Oct 20th, 2007 at 08:57:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Think "Potlatch"
North Western Indians when they found themselves posessed of a surfeit of wealth, had a dynamite party and gave it all away. Giving became a source of status, instead of getting.

Man, is that beautiful heresy.

 

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Sat Oct 20th, 2007 at 11:17:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Among the Kwaikutul of the American Northwest, there was a process of challenge, where one chief would destroy blankets, etc, and the other chief would be challenged to destroy an equivalent amount.  To do so showed the status of the chief, to fail broke the chiefs reputation.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sat Oct 20th, 2007 at 11:35:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Your selection of the Kwaikutl iteration of the the potlatch- a thousands-year-old, cross-cultural custom--- is the traditional one, and is pretty narrow.
My point was that we are considering the relationship of possessions and status, and that it's sure gonna change.
The more typical potlatch concept has to do with giving away of "stuff" as an act that accrues status, instead of the eternal collection of stuff, and the position of having less is often more admirable than having more.

Interesting. N'est pas?

"Potlatches were social occasions given by a host to establish or uphold his status position in society. Often they were held to mark a significant event in his family, such as the birth of a child, a daughter's first menses, or a son's marriage. Potlatches are to be distinguished from feasts in that guests are invited to a potlatch to share food and receive gifts or payment. Potlatches held by commoners were mainly local, while elites often invited guests from many tribes. Potlatches were also the venue in which ownership to economic and ceremonial privileges was asserted, displayed, and formally transferred to heirs.
----
The significance and nature of gifting in Northwest Coast potlatches has varied through time and across cultures. It is commonly portrayed as extremely competitive, with hosts bankrupting themselves to outdo their rivals and aggressively destroying property. While this form of gifting characterized practices of northern groups such as the Kwakiutl, such competition would have been considered inappropriate during Nuu-chah-nulth or Salish potlatches on the southern coast.'

Buncha savages with quaint customs? Or several millenium of human experience that we choose not to look at?

http://www.peabody.harvard.edu/potlatch/page4.html

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 06:34:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
what is it with the destruction, especially amped up with competition, that rings so familiar?

i know, watching the who smashing guitars, handcrafted with care, and desired by the screaming hordes...

i wonder if any indians slept too cold because the chief was showing off?

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 06:38:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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