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Big issue here tonight - lots of Poles here.

People queuing here to vote since 5am this morning .... 25,00 registered to vote here. Looks like a family outing ... can't imagine that many who voted here voted for the Terrible Twins.

Non-voters interviewed are saying they're just pissed off with the whole political scene in Ireland.

"In Warsaw a number of polling stations ran out of polling papers". "Over 55% turnout". Overseas vote "feeds into Warsaw constituency". "Official result Monday/Tuesday". First exit polls due 10pm GMT+1.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 04:07:27 PM EST
Beatroot also reported a target time of 22:55 CE(S)T for announcements. Also a mistakenly shown exit poll graph without names given, showing a large advantage for the winner -- it seems the neoliberals can form a government on their own.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 04:10:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's bad we're rooting for the pro-business parties, but what can you do when crazies are the alternative?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 04:11:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed, just as Marek argued anno. Unfortunately, they aren't just pro-business hyper-reformists, but enthusiastic hyper-Atlanticists, too... in that worse than the Twins.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 04:15:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Atlanticist they may be, but Tusk has said he'll pull troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 at 10:28:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And they said they will adopt the European charter of fundamental rights...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 at 10:39:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Does that leave the UK as the sole refusniks on that then? The Irish government muttered about not ratifying it then ran away screaming when everyone looked at them funny ...
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 at 10:40:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The UK don't want no stinking rights. British liberty is the residue of concessions made by our ancient rulers, which our present masters have not got around to withdrawing yet.

I am sure Tony Blair thinks that the biggest mistake he made was to enact the Human Rights Act 1998 (extending parts of the European Convention of Human Rights into UK domestic law).

The last thing the British ruling class wants to do is add additional barriers to executive authority.

However to say something about Poland, it is a good thing if they wish to adopt the Charter of Fundamental Rights.

by Gary J on Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 at 11:06:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, it looks like UK will remain the only EU member state in which the Charter will not be legally binding.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 at 11:12:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He didn't, a party rep said after the election that this is the aim.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 at 04:32:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Which, I add, might be a way of extorting something from the US; what Tusk told in the television debate was that Poland got nothing back from serving along the US.

(BTW, beatroot thinks that, while the US and Britain didn't, Poland did join for oil: in one post he quoted explicit words from government persons on a hope for oil contracts.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 at 04:35:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What I am really happy about is the elimination of the PiS's former coalition partners, especially the Catholic-conservative and barely crypto fascist madmen of LPR.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 05:42:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Incidentially, which meaning of "liberal" did you mean in your description of The Beatroot?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 04:13:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well... cosmopolitan-urbanite-liberal. A social-liberal/neolib distinction is not helpful here. He criticised the Civic Platform and Tusk for not being liberal enough (on social-cultural matters). But he praised Barroso as one great politician -- for endorsing low-budget airlines. E.g., not really our kind of progressive.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 04:23:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Unfortunately, one of the Terrible Twins, the President, was not up for re-vote.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 04:12:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know, but as usual the best I can hope for is improvement.

What are the odds of getting rid of him before he's due to go? Given the normal way those sort of people work - projection as a key value - I have to assume that there's lots of corruption he could be nailed on.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 04:14:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think he can be removed -- I believe that in Lech Wałęsa's scandalous final years, there were failed attempts to remove him. On the other hand, in a cohabitation, he may be much more constrained.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 04:18:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a parliamentary system, so he has limited power anyway?

Hm. Some sort of mixed system according to Wikipedia?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 04:22:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mixed, just like in France (or Austria). Cohabitation happened before under Wałęsa, which was constant conflict but as I remember it, more theatrics than real blockade of the government from the President's side. It also happened under Kwaśniewski, who focussed on appearing statesmanlike, though maybe he vetoed some stuff (I don't remember any details anymore).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 at 04:26:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He did veto some quite significant stuff, I find.

East European Constitutional Review

December 1998 also witnessed the final battle for the establishment of the Institute of National Remem-brance, an archive of the files of the pre-1989 secret services. As expected, on December 3, President Alexander Kwasniewski (formerly Democratic Left Alliance [DLA]) vetoed the bill...

...three-fifths majority required to overrule the president's veto... On December 18, the Sejm voted to overrule the president's veto.

...a Senate amendment, approved by the opposition and some EAS members (including the two EAS ministers), empowered the prosecutor general's office to veto privatization decisions made by the Ministry of the Treasury. According to FU, the law as amended would allow the office to encroach on the ministry's competence as well as slow the progress of privatization... FU called on the president to veto the act, which he did, on January 27.

East European Constitutional Review

Since coming to power in 1997, the EAS-Freedom Union (FU) coalition has seen many of its legislative projects killed by the vetoes of President Aleksander Kwasniewski.

...Eventually, the ruling coalition proposed three tax rates: 19, 29, and 36 percent in 2000; 19, 28, and 35 percent in 2001, and just two rates-18 and 28 percent thereafter. The bill also eliminated many tax deductions, with only the house-renovation benefit and a provision for families with two or more children remaining intact.

...November 28, when President Aleksander Kwasniewski (DLA) vetoed the tax bill, asserting that it violated the social-justice principle called for in Art. 2 of the Constitution, and that its passage had been highly irreg-ular. Kwasniewski's move outraged the government. Balcerowicz considered resigning, setting off shock-waves in the economy-the zloty weakened, and the stock market took a dive. On December 2, parliament responded to the presidential veto, with 200 deputies voting to uphold and 225 voting to overrule. Because the proponents of tax reform fell significantly short of the majority (265 votes) they needed to overrule a pres-idential veto, the previous tax rates were preserved.

...the Polish Senate had adopted the toughest antipornography law in Europe.

...the provision was passed by a vote of 210 to 197 with 19 abstentions. At this point, President Kwasniewski entered the fray. He vetoed the law on the last possible date, March 27. The president justified his veto with the claim that educa-tion- not a ban-could best combat pornography. Moreover, the president and many of the ban's oppo-nents disliked the law because it did not define pornography, handing dangerous discretionary powers to judges and prosecutors, who could apply the law unpredictably, according to their personal views.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 at 07:40:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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