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Well the interesting quote is the following

Article 2

   1. Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.
   2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.
   3. An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.

and of course from article 1

For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

and in case you want to take any action

Article 8

   1. The offences referred to in article 4 shall be deemed to be included as extraditable offences in any extradition treaty existing between States Parties. States Parties undertake to include such offences as extraditable offences in every extradition treaty to be concluded between them.

does Iraq have an extradition treaty with the USA? if not how about some other country whose nationals have been held in Guantanamo?


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2007 at 06:16:06 PM EST
and to answer my own question

www.state.gov treatys in force list as 2000 (PDF Warning

EXTRADITION
Extradition treaty. Signed at Baghdad June 7,
1934; entered into force April 23, 1936.
49 Stat. 3380; TS 907; 9 Bevans 1; 170 LNTS
267.

still 9/11 changed everything. </snark>

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2007 at 07:01:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Keep it up and you'll have done the advance legwork for a lawsuit that I would love to see tried.

Bob

http://bobhiggins.wordpress.com/

by BobHiggins (rlh974@yahoo.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2007 at 09:29:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sure John Ashcroft would view this as "quaint".

What can one say ? To save civilisation it is necessary to use uncivilised methods. The difficulty is that the US and others have always played down and dirty but, to use Coman's phrase, we usually had the dignity to pretend we did so reluctantly. These guys enjoy it and are unashamed of that enjoyment.

But let's not make any mistake about this. This is not a break with the past, this is an acknowledgement that what was once a minority sport is preferred policy.

We have not been civilised since the beginning of the Cold War. We've just been very good at fooling ourselves that we're the good guys and have arrived in hell on a path strewn with rose-petalled delusions

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Oct 7th, 2007 at 11:20:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure that's true, Although he appeared to be a religious lunatic when in power. the Justice department appears to have avoided the excesses that have occurred since under Gonzales.

for example  there's the Ashcroft Hospital story. I'm not saying all was sweetness and light under him, but he does seem to have shown an unhealthy respect for the law for someone in the heart of the Bush cabal.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Oct 7th, 2007 at 03:28:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
United States law prohibits torture. I would imagine it would not be a defence for a US citizen involved in torture to claim it was done outside US territory, if it took place in a US government (military or CIA) facility.

Surely a test prosecution could be undertaken against someone low down the foodchain, with a view to encouraging co-operation in prosecuting more significant offenders?

Is it possible to bring a private criminal prosecution before a US federal court, or will this strategy have to wait for a Democratic administration?

by Gary J on Tue Oct 16th, 2007 at 10:40:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem, as far as I've been able to determine, is that the US has not actually ratified the protocols that define torture. So while it's illegal to torture people in the US, it's not technically illegal under US law for the Bush regime to redefine what's torture to exclude torture by waterboarding... None of which would matter if the Hague had some teeth and a proper, global jurisdiction.

Disclaimer: IANAL

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Oct 16th, 2007 at 11:23:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Article 1 of the treaty, which the US has ratified in full, details a definition of torture. The protocol to the treaty dosn't cover definitions as far as I can see, it only covers the makeup of torture prevention comittees.

it's not technically illegal under US law for the Bush regime to redefine what's torture to exclude torture by waterboarding.

You'd have to say that it is the most transparent sophistry. However there is case law that has come to light. Sleep deprivation, waterboarding etc have been convicted as war crimes after World War 2

AmericanHeritage.com / Blog: Waterboarding

In 1947 the United States convicted and imprisoned a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, for abuses of an American civilian that included a version of waterboarding, and included charges of what would now be called waterboarding in other cases against Japanese accused of torture. The United Kingdom executed Japanese who carried out versions of waterboarding during World War II, and Norway tried Germans for similar activities.

I am also not a lawyer, but I do know bullshit when I see it.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Oct 16th, 2007 at 11:54:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's what I get for relying on newsies to sort out what's propaganda and what's for real. I should've known better. Then again, the newsies who reported it were actually good ones... Guess they can screw up too.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Oct 16th, 2007 at 12:29:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Article 5

    1. Each State Party shall take such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offences referred to in article 4 in the following cases:

        (a) When the offences are committed in any territory under its jurisdiction or on board a ship or aircraft registered in that State;

        (b) When the alleged offender is a national of that State;

        (c) When the victim is a national of that State if that State considers it appropriate.

    2. Each State Party shall likewise take such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over such offences in cases where the alleged offender is present in any territory under its jurisdiction and it does not extradite him pursuant to article 8 to any of the States mentioned in paragraph I of this article.

    3. This Convention does not exclude any criminal jurisdiction exercised in accordance with internal law.

well under the torture convention it is a requirement that the law  covers US citizens who torture abroad.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Oct 16th, 2007 at 11:26:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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