Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Display:
United States law prohibits torture. I would imagine it would not be a defence for a US citizen involved in torture to claim it was done outside US territory, if it took place in a US government (military or CIA) facility.

Surely a test prosecution could be undertaken against someone low down the foodchain, with a view to encouraging co-operation in prosecuting more significant offenders?

Is it possible to bring a private criminal prosecution before a US federal court, or will this strategy have to wait for a Democratic administration?

by Gary J on Tue Oct 16th, 2007 at 10:40:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem, as far as I've been able to determine, is that the US has not actually ratified the protocols that define torture. So while it's illegal to torture people in the US, it's not technically illegal under US law for the Bush regime to redefine what's torture to exclude torture by waterboarding... None of which would matter if the Hague had some teeth and a proper, global jurisdiction.

Disclaimer: IANAL

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Oct 16th, 2007 at 11:23:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Article 1 of the treaty, which the US has ratified in full, details a definition of torture. The protocol to the treaty dosn't cover definitions as far as I can see, it only covers the makeup of torture prevention comittees.

it's not technically illegal under US law for the Bush regime to redefine what's torture to exclude torture by waterboarding.

You'd have to say that it is the most transparent sophistry. However there is case law that has come to light. Sleep deprivation, waterboarding etc have been convicted as war crimes after World War 2

AmericanHeritage.com / Blog: Waterboarding

In 1947 the United States convicted and imprisoned a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, for abuses of an American civilian that included a version of waterboarding, and included charges of what would now be called waterboarding in other cases against Japanese accused of torture. The United Kingdom executed Japanese who carried out versions of waterboarding during World War II, and Norway tried Germans for similar activities.

I am also not a lawyer, but I do know bullshit when I see it.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Oct 16th, 2007 at 11:54:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's what I get for relying on newsies to sort out what's propaganda and what's for real. I should've known better. Then again, the newsies who reported it were actually good ones... Guess they can screw up too.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Oct 16th, 2007 at 12:29:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Article 5

    1. Each State Party shall take such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offences referred to in article 4 in the following cases:

        (a) When the offences are committed in any territory under its jurisdiction or on board a ship or aircraft registered in that State;

        (b) When the alleged offender is a national of that State;

        (c) When the victim is a national of that State if that State considers it appropriate.

    2. Each State Party shall likewise take such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over such offences in cases where the alleged offender is present in any territory under its jurisdiction and it does not extradite him pursuant to article 8 to any of the States mentioned in paragraph I of this article.

    3. This Convention does not exclude any criminal jurisdiction exercised in accordance with internal law.

well under the torture convention it is a requirement that the law  covers US citizens who torture abroad.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Oct 16th, 2007 at 11:26:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:

Occasional Series