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Also, realtors... it's a commercial job. If you sell a lot, then yes you will get more money. If not, you won't. PLUS it's in the tail end of a bubble. So yes they've had some good years, now many will be laid off. Not very comparable to SNCF.

As for qualifications, yes there are people with more qualifications than realtors at SNCF. There are, though, many more with less.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Nov 19th, 2007 at 05:30:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm interested, what do realtors do that is intrinsically worth more than train drivers?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Nov 19th, 2007 at 06:46:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Did I say anything like that? No, I never did.
Besides, we would need to define "worth". The train system cannot operate for a profit. So some people may argue that it's worth nothing. I would strongly disagree with them of course.

No, I'm all for public transport and agree that it is very important. Most jobs just are not very hard (in term of competence) to do. Sometimes you have tough hours, which is a pain, but then 25 hours of work in a week (TGV driver) is not exactly taxing, so it sort of compensates. Besides, far from all SNCF jobs require a 2am alarm clock. All, though, have lots of bonuses and early retirement. All have employment for life and no competition.

Nurses do something worth at least as much as train drivers, they work longer hours, with very inconvenient times. Compensation is rarely a direct link to what something is "worth", with no effect from how many people able to do it or for commercial positions (such as realtors), how good you are at it.
Maybe it would be good if it were the case, but then you'd need a system that applies to everyone, not just SNCF. You'd also have to find a fair outcome for the people who could not get the low competence but worth a lot job simply because there were way too many candidates. As is the case for SNCF...

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Nov 19th, 2007 at 07:23:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No you didn't, but you did say that If you sell a lot, then yes you will get more money. If not, you won't,  sort of implying that as you think that train drivers don't deserve the compensation they have, then they don't work hard. Now I know you didn't actually say that, but the implication is lieing about.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Nov 19th, 2007 at 10:13:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Absolutely no such implication.
Simply, commercial jobs, usually, have a small fixed salary with a big variable part.

In a bubble, you are likely to get a big variable part. You are also FAR more likely to be fired when it deflates than is you work at SNCF. So it's only to be expected that in a housing bubbles, some realtors could make quite a lot.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Nov 19th, 2007 at 11:17:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Besides, far from all SNCF jobs require a 2am alarm clock.

Sure, there are desk jobs, ticket sellers and conductors. But then traffic controllers, shunting crews and freight train drivers do night shifts, maintenance shop workers have an alarm clock set even earlier than locomotive drivers, in fact some work only by night. By why did you took TGV drivers as example previously?

but then 25 hours of work in a week (TGV driver)

From this, I guess you are channelling an attack article circling on the French web. It is a crude spin: 25 hours is the driving time, not the work time, the work time is 35 hours like for hte rest.

Le Web des Cheminots [ www.cheminots.net ] - votre forum de discussion entre cheminots, agents SNCF et passionnés des chemins de fer

Un temps de travail annualisé
Alors, fainéants les cheminots ? En décembre, le directeur de l'Ile-de-France a mis les pieds dans le plat, affirmant que les conducteurs de RER travaillaient « 182 jours par an [...] pour une durée de service de six heures en moyenne » . A la SNCF, le temps de travail - 35 heures, calculé à la minute près - est annualisé. Certaines semaines ont six jours, d'autres deux. Mais on travaille le week-end, les jours fériés, à Noël (ou le jour de l'An), et l'on « découche » plusieurs fois par semaine. Précision : un conducteur ne conduit pas 35 heures. « Sur une journée de 7-8 heures, je fais 4 heures, calcule un conducteur TGV. Le reste du temps il faut préparer la machine. Un train, ça ne se démarre pas comme une voiture ! »


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Nov 19th, 2007 at 11:00:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was channelling nothing. I was quoting an SNCF director who came to school to present his company.

Previously, I had mentioned drivers because they only get to retire at 50.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Nov 19th, 2007 at 11:12:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Then he wasn't speaking about absolute work-hours either. And you focused in on TGV drivers. It may also be that that SNCF directors' speech and reading a quote of this somewhere mixed up in your memory:

Horaire de travail: 25 heures par semaine (vive les 35 heures)

At any rate, if retiring at 50 is your main problem, I'd welcome if you would consider commuter train, freight train and regional train drivers, too...

I note for comparison that in Germany, there is no separate retirement age for locomotive drivers, but less than 5% reach the official retirement age, most go out after failing medical checks 20-30 years into service. That's quite comparable to the French limit of 50.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Nov 19th, 2007 at 11:37:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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