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In Europe, very few go around calling themselves Christians..

Really?  I'd like to see the stats on Church membership or personal self-identification by country.  In some countries like Poland it is possibly 90% plus?

In Ireland the political power of the church is utterly broken - but 90% of people still go to weddings and funerals and other services in a church context

I think you are confusing formal religiousity with an identification with a particular value system - which is the basis of my argument.

I am not even arguing whether it is a particularly good or bad value system.  Just that for the European project to move forward it needs to reconnect and inspire its constituent peoples, and that it is singularly failing o do.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Dec 11th, 2007 at 02:40:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When talking about values and religion in different countries, I always found the Map by Ronald Inglehart to be useful as a starting point.

You can find the data here.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Tue Dec 11th, 2007 at 03:21:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Frank Schnittger:
I think you are confusing formal religiousity with an identification with a particular value system

Actually I think you are.

Someone who gets married in a church isn't any more Christian than someone who drives to a wedding in a car is a Formula 1 celebrity.

Frank Schnittger:

Just that for the European project to move forward it needs to reconnect and inspire its constituent peoples, and that it is singularly failing o do.

True enough. But touting Christianity as an answer guarantees that you'll alienate even more of the population. Especially the many non-Christians of every description.

Active church-goers in the UK are around 5% of the population. People will often say 'Christian' by default if asked, but only because they remember school assembly, not out of any personal conviction.

The real religion of the EU is Secular Capitalism - a milder form of the Capitalist Darwinism which is the official religion of the US, and includes all of the Protestant Work Ethic without the Protestantism.

All of our daily rituals and social values revolve around it. Christianity barely gets a look in, in comparison.

If people are alienated, it's because Secular Capitalism doesn't have much of a future to offer them, and they're starting to wake up to this.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Dec 11th, 2007 at 03:35:32 PM EST
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Religion on the Way Out in Europe: Angus Reid Global Monitor
The Angus Reid World Poll conducted for Maclean's found that most Europeans and Canadians appear to be turning away from religion, while Indians, South Africans, Mexicans and residents of three Middle East countries still consider it an important part of their daily lives.

France is at the bottom of the list, with only 17 per cent of respondents expressing interest in religion, with Britain at 23 per cent, Germany at 24 per cent and Spain at 31 per cent. Italy, traditionally one of the most Catholic countries in Europe, is the exception among continental nations with 51 per cent.



"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Tue Dec 11th, 2007 at 03:35:58 PM EST
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I think the Zuckerman study is still the best on this issue, because it separates things like "low interest in religion" from calling oneself atheist. Couldn't find the original, here is a breakdown.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu
by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Tue Dec 11th, 2007 at 05:02:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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