And many of those that identify themselves as Americans hate "the federal government" too, like the Tuscans in your example.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

About the "stupid regulations" I am not so sure either. Often these are stories propagated by the press with little basis in reality, or the member states add them to EU directives when they transpose them into national legislation. But there are stupid regulations, such as the liquids ban on airplanes.

There is one data point in these polls which I found interesting: of the people who are interested in national politics, 30% are not interested in European politics.

As for the Spanish sentiment, the one glaring omission in the CIS polls is the question of ranking regional, national and european sentiment. This means that they either ask people about their regional vs. national identification, or their national vs. european identification. So the 60% of people who identify primarily as Spanish includes those who identify equally with Spain and their region above Europe.

According to the Eurobarometer, 95% of those polled have seen the EU flag, and 54% identify with it [including 68% of Italians]. It should be noted that the flag is originally the flag of the Council of Europe, a human rights organization, which includes all European countries except Belarus including Turkey, Russia and the ex-soviet Caucasian republics. As for attachment, 91% feel attached to their country, 86% to their city/town/village, and 53% to the EU. Spain and Italy are both at 62%. Interestingly, the ones who feel most attached are people from Macedonia, which isn't even a Member State. For those living in a different EU country than that which they are born in or born of foreign parents, attachment is higher at 65%.

If you want to argue that the EU and a European Identity have a long way to go, I don't think anyone will disagree with you. But if you want to argue 1) it's not happening; 2) it can't happen; 3) it's hopeless; I think you're wrong.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

Coming back to Europe, the Italians you cite seem to me to be belly-aching without knowledge. The EU does not levy taxes (its budget is small, around 1% of GDP). I'd suggest those people, if the EU didn't exist, would be griping about the Italian government in the same way.

I think you misunderstand Migeru's language here Terry.  By Nationalistic sentiment he (and Spaniards) mean Basque, Catalan etc. which at 6.0% is lower than the 6.9% who feel primarily European.  

One of the benefits of the EU, is that it has reduced the relative importance of the nation state which in turn means that tensions within that nation state (Spain, Ireland/N. Ireland,) can be reduced, and previously suppressed identities (Basque, Catalan, Breton, Scot, Welch) can be expressed more freely.  I matters less now if Belgium breaks up because all the component "bits" will still be within the EU.

Is this a more general experience throughout Europe - e.g Eastern Europe?

Index of Frank's Diaries

From what I understand, the whole point of the EU is to economically compete with large markets like the US, China, Southeast Asia.  Slice it anyway you want, but that is why countries want to join. Not mutual defense.

Globalisation is certainly one factor and mutual defense is only beginning to be addressed.  But you miss all the other things - regional development, sectoral development, environmental policies, human rights, security cooperation - and all the things that are best handled on a Europe wide basis.

You forget a few things about the EU.

1. Its budget is only c. 1% of GDP
   
2. It's "bureaucracy" is about the size of Birmingham City council
   
3.  ALL of the areas of policy it addresses are areas which ALL EU governments have ASKED it to address in various treaties.

Your Tuscan friends are buying into this game.  The reality is Italy would be a basket case without the EU and the Euro - and is in significant difficulty even with them.  Alitalia has more debts than it has assets despite massive (illegal) Government subvention and support.

The reality is all EU policies are agreed by EU Governments.  Some suit some members better than others, and so a lot of horse-trading takes place.  You get a lot of messy compromises - a bit like the US Budgetary process.

If anything it is too easy for a particularly short sighted or self-interested Government to block necessary proposals.  The evidence presented by the surveys cited here is that most Europeans view the EU positively, would like to take a more active role in many areas, and support its enlargement.

Far from being governed by an unaccountable bureaucracy, most people actively support and vote for the policies which have been implemented.  I have argued long and hard that the level of transparency, accountability and efficiency in decision making needs to be radically improved as the EU grows larger and deeper.

You say that Americans are individualists and want to restrict the power of Government as much a possible.  Europeans see Americans as being ruled by corporations, the military/industrial complex, private interest groups and lobbyists, and would prefer to be ruled by an inefficient Government rather than an unaccountable corporation.

Index of Frank's Diaries

From what I understand, the whole point of the EU is to economically compete with large markets like the US, China, Southeast Asia.

Which, in an era of cross border ownership and transnational corporations , is no point at all, since you only compete with yourself.

"Competition" is all about depressing wages and living standards for the many to the benefit of the few. As has been exhaustively analysed and presented on ET...

Having said that, I know I'm in a minority here on ET since it is not clear to me what the EU is actually for in a globalised world.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

You understand very little. (That was not even runner-up in my reasons when I votes Yes for Hungary to join the EU.)

Not mutual defense.

No one said it's mutual defense.

the government fostered western expansion, not identity.

And Western expansion fostered identity. It's a basic logical chain.

indiviual achievement, individual freedeom and individual prosperity is the founding cornerstone.

Depends on whom you ask. It may be true for you. At any rate, the old American state, regional (say, Confederate...) and religious identities, and economic structures like plantations, were washed away by the forces I mentioned, and made it possible in the first place for Libertarians and like-minded Republicans to preach individualist capitalism the defining mark of the USA today.

Therefore, you have a band of elites who think they are smarter than the other europeans and want to control them through socialistic mechanisms.

LOL. Your caricature couldn't be further from the truth. Our elites aren't much of a believer in socialistic mechanisms, they are increasingly believers in opressive and anti-democratic free-market mechanisms.

Most of what I have read here only confirms that suspician.

I have noticed earlier that you don't undestand what you are reading here. Say, Migeru on natiuonalism and Spain. I suggest you first make the effort to understand before making judgements.

_{*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.}