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Socialists in America also see Americans ruled by corporations or the military complex.  This is all very old hat.  Are we still reading Galbraith?Corporations don't vote. The government does regulate and tax corporations as well as give them certain benefits.  As it does for enviromental groups, unions and other entities.  Europe does not do the same?  

I trust individuals to make free, unfettered decisions.  Americans support their system because it has promoted individual achievement and generated personal wealth.  

As for the mutual defense, does Germany still want Alsace Lorraine?  Europe's borders have been cemented over the past 50 years.  Democracies do not war with each other.  America has pretty muched guaranteed europe's freedom from soviet threats. So, war in Europe shouldnt really be a factor.  When there was (Kosovo), europe didnt do anything about it.

And if Europeans wholeheartedly support the EU, why are the member states governments trying to backdoor popular referendums to avoid "Non" votes again?

Terry

by Terry (Terry@pollackzuckerman.com) on Sun Dec 16th, 2007 at 06:06:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Corporations don't vote. The government does regulate and tax corporations as well as give them certain benefits.  As it does for enviromental groups, unions and other entities.  Europe does not do the same?

Corporations don't vote, but they influence the law-making directly, via impressively effective lobbying. We're all free to lobby, true, but it costs money and thus somehow ends up favoring those that can actually afford to do it on a systematic basis.

Government does regulate and tax corporations, but it is doing an increasingly poor job of it because of corporate lobbying.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Dec 16th, 2007 at 06:56:55 PM EST
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Corporations don't vote - and neither do most Americans.  Corporations buy votes, and most senior Administration officials have significant corporate connections or will end up working in the corporate sector again in due course. American politics is run by corporate "donations" even though the American polity is supposed to be made up of citizens rather than corporations.

Americans also have free speech (provided they aren't labeled a communist) but corporations control what voices are heard.  I don't doubt that many Americans buy into the corporatist culture you exult in, but many do not.  

In contrast more Europeans tend to buy into and participate in their local and national political cultures -including the emerging EU dimension to many of those aspects of Government - and this despite the fact that Europeans come from many different and diverse countries without the homogenising effects of a single dominant national culture which you so often express here on behalf of the US.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Dec 17th, 2007 at 07:55:30 AM EST
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Corporations are taxed and regulated by the government, are they not?

But there are also unions, enviromental groups, the Sierra Club, the ACLU, Women's groups and a host of other leftist groups that also attempt to buy influence and do. This doesnt go on in Europe? Come on.

Communists and Socialists have the right to free speech and often use it in the U.S.  Most socialists actually hide within the Democratic Party because most americans dont like socialism.  Socialism likes to hide its agenda under other agendas because socialists here cannot convince the electorate otherwise.

Those who dont participate in the US political system tend to support the way its going. Massive turnout happens when the electorate is very upset with the current state of affairs.

As to corporations, why are corporations so evil?  Corporations employ people and provide goods and services. In fact, I believe one employs you Frank.  If it wasnt for corporations, you probably wouldnt have a computer to type on.  Corporations dont take anything from anyone. They offer a good or a service that people buy voluntarily.  Socialists tend to be people who really cant produce anything on their own.  Thus, they advance themselves by taking the means of production into their own hands (by force) so that THEY can be in control.  

Terry

by Terry (Terry@pollackzuckerman.com) on Mon Dec 17th, 2007 at 11:38:04 AM EST
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