Top Diaries

Heh, for once I can fully agree with you.

One of the reasons for putting up these lists in indeed to have them easily accessible. The hardest bit has been done, now we just need to put them somewhere visible (or easily reachable), and update them as relevant...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 07:14:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As you know I have created "Table of Contents" stories visible only to the Frontpagers for "Socratic Economics", "Gnomemoot" and "Anglo Disease".

I can create "Table of Contents" stories based on the lists you have here, and post them in the Debates section, if you want.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 07:21:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It needs a new section called something like Indexes instead.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 07:26:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That can be arranged.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 07:26:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let me know when you get started. I've got some ideas regarding regarding the Information Base organization.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 09:38:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You migh as well just e-mail me now.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 05:54:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh yeah, "Indexes" is sooo sexy! ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 07:40:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It should be indices.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 07:41:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Even sexier! Sure to pull in the crowds.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 07:42:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Allright, "Indicies with added sex"

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 08:06:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Indices which can launch WMD's within 45 minutes".

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 04:21:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The important thing is instant visibilty of these for journalists. Even a big red button saying 'MEDIA' that linked to the list tree and summaries might do the trick ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 07:36:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I also think we should have a short statement under the logo that is ET in a nutshell. That is going to be quite hard to agree upon, but it would be worth the effort. We have experts in this too.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 07:25:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why don't you (none / 0)

provide a first draft? It's your idea after all. Run with it!

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 07:45:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why don't you (none / 0)

OK

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 07:47:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree wholeheartedly.

We would need only a few links, say one for each theme, which then immediately linked (via a brief intro?) to thematic lists of Diaries.

A sort of Diary ontology, I guess.

Migeru?

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 07:20:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Having designed Information Systems (about eleventy-million times) I suggest we need to establish the Goal and then work on the Process.

The first step in deciding on the Goal is to determine the intended audience; in short: Who is we After?

Intimately bound into this is the question: What purpose/reason will Who come here?

In Biz-Speak: who's the target market, what's the product?

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 10:09:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And having done so we need to decide on the information architecture which best fulfills that goal. In other words what are the key themes, sub themes, etc. that will appeal to our target audience and which we can populate with stories, archival material, and new material as it is produced.

Thus if I am a political reporter researching a piece on alternative energy, how do I find the relevant material - by free text search, by navigating down a hierarchical folder list - Energy->Alternative->Wind->offshore and how do I get a quick overview sense of he range of material available - a "library catalogue" of sorts...

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 10:29:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Scoop supports all this.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 06:09:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree with you and the goals, but we must take into account some of the features that characterize ET:

_ it is a community based on collaborative thinking, so the "product" and the "process" are the same thing unless there is a summary made afterwards. That means a new architecture should not hinder the dynamics of exchange and the conviviality of the community.

- we are working on a voluntary basis: we write diaries and comments according to what motivates us. That means we should not let the "marketing" lead our reflections/exchanges.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 08:41:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The "market" and "product" are external to ET and should - I trust - have no impact on the way we do things. It really shouldn't. ET, as it is now, is the 'sensory input' and knowledge processing side. There is no reason to change it and every reason that we shouldn't change it.

That's our Value Added.

The Information Base is the persistent memory of ET. An Information Base, properly designed, is a repository from which data/information/knowledge can be easily and rapidly accessed. Given available technology "easily" and "rapidly" requires a fairly solid idea of Who is going to be looking.

BTW, 'Who' is plural. ;-)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 12:47:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think if we were in the business of creating an information base we would have a mediawiki.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 01:32:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

An Information Base is what we're constructing. The Functionality (what's going in the IB and how stuff is retrieved) of the IB is what we're discussing.

My position: Let's go Crazy and Blue Sky what we would like and then pare down to what we can do.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 01:51:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think the issue here is that regular users tend to use the recommended diary list and the recent comments, and so the Front Page is an underutilised resource. So, I don't see anything wrong with gearing it towards an external audience.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 01:33:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, I think there are different ways to use the ET interface. I, for one, don't use the recent comments frequently.

However, I'm not against formatting the front page to make it a more newcomer-friendly one.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 02:22:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hierarchical Folder List

ACK!

No. No. No. No. No.

Users hate them things. And rightfully so; they are annoying, time wasting, frustrating PsOS.

With a little more effort a much better Human Interface can be constructed.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 01:01:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As a new user I must say I find that I never use the front page and am a bit unclear as to why there is a separate Front page and Diary section. The Open threads and European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch are the sort of more informal stuff you would expect to find in a diary section.

The Home and Frontpage sections of most websites are the shop window which highlight all the main features, important stuff, site maps, tables of content, and semi permanent content which is used for navigation around the site. It should give an overview of the scope and content of the site and be visually appealing, intellectual stimulating, and emotionally exciting!!!!!

At the moment it looks awful, is very wordy, fussy, content rich but confusing and with an awful lot of Klatsch which is great if you're an ET groupie but a little bit strange and off putting to the new or casual visitor who is wondering what the site is all about and what resources and functionality the site has to offer. Is it a chat site or a serious intellectual resource? (Of course it's both, but the chat itself shouldn't be on the front page - a link would suffice to emphasise the participative community nature of the site).

It comes across as very interactive, which is great, but it is difficult to separate the chat from the really authoritative, serious stuff, which perhaps explains why (if) ET isn't taken very seriously by MSM.

Otherv features which would be of interest is on-line stats of page hits per day, who is currently online, number of unique users per day etc. because otherwise it is hard to tell whether it is a site for a couple of dozen inveterate hobbyists or a serious and widespread community.

Otherwise its just great!

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 07:47:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Permanently available (4.00 / 3)

I think this site is quite noticed by the MSM, though not yet at the level of sourcing. But the frame of the debate may well be changing. Based upon personal experience.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Sat Dec 29th, 2007 at 08:01:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Permanently available (4.00 / 3)

As I said above, the community is also the "production tool" of ET. Thus maintaining and developing it is essential. The Open threads and European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch are the place where the community create bonds that are a prerequisite for the quality of debates.

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to separate the informal/humorous exchanges and digressions from the more "on the point" comments, but the spontaneity should be preserved.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 09:09:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wouldn't we need both a "best of" linking to maybe 10 or 20 stories, that would be about the main subjects we breach on EuroTrib, and also apply topics or keywords to each diary, for ease of sorting and access ?

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 06:40:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The indices box has been created.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 07:20:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's great that you have done this, but it isn't the real solution. To work as it should, in the short capture time needed for journalists, it has to be very 'user friendly'. What you have done is to create a new resource for existing members who are already aware of the visual field of the layout and can learn to navigate through its foibles it over time.

However I am thinking about the short statement under the logo, and in due course will have some scoop-implementable suggestions for the FP.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 08:04:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No, it's not the solution but it's a baby step. Point out the next step and it will be implemented.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 08:08:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I was thinking about a left-hand box that would have at most a dozen stories that would be a "best of", and covering a width of subjects that would define what's talked about around here. A sort of "read those first" quick introduction and mission statement. Of course, identifying those stories and diaries is quite some work in itself...

Also, Scoop already has topics (say, energy, inequality, astrology) that could first be added by the diary writer and/or front pagers to new diaries. It could be possible to add topics after a discussion in the open thread or in a salon, to be able to remember and classify those discussions.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 08:26:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Scoop has sections and topics.

Sections include Diaries, News, Indices and Debates. Only Frontpagers can post things other than Diaries (called "Stories"), but that can be changed with a clich of a mouse, so it is open to debate. New sections can be created. They can also be eliminated and all the existing content added to a existing section. Sections can be nested. Right now they are all top-level but they needn't be.

Topics are selected in the story/diary edit form. They include Everything, Diary, Economy, Energy, ET Community, Europe, International, PDB and USA. Topics can be added or eliminated as well. I believe PDB is an old occasional series written by soj back when they were a frontpager.

People could select an appropriate Topic for their diaries or we FPers could do it. This way of classifying content has been superseded by tags in more modern blogging practice, but that's the way SCOOP works.

Boxes can be made to display the latest N stories in any topic/section. A box could also be created with links to the various sections or topics.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 08:34:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

There are a bunch of scoop sites where tags have been grafted on. I believe it is in the CVS now. I don't know if that helps, but just so you know.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 02:19:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There is a certain amount of thought required even to make a draft suggestion. I can't do it today. And I hope that everyone will have a chance to comment before action is taken.

The audience concerns we have to address IMO are :

Visiting media. These will be hit-and-run journalists who have seen ET mentioned in some form elsewhere and come to check it out. They need to get an instant FP feel for the key themes, and the depth, quality and richness of the content if they stay to explore. But they need to find the main narratives very fast. The visual 'imprinting' has take place in 2 seconds. They are uninterested in community. But we are very interested in them.
Visiting experts. They come because of a particular interest (eg Wind Energy) via a link or a story elsewhere. They need to find links to their subject quite fast. They are also not interested in community because they probably have a specialist community of their own. We also need to link expert communities together for finer grain resourcing, so making contact is important.
Visiting bloggers. These visitors know how blogs work. They will sample content and if they like it they might stay. Our increasing use of visuals is IMO a good way of increasing visits. The number of members/page views is not important in the short run, but does build the reputation of ET. However the number and richness of comments is important on a daily basis. The New User Guide is important for them.
Lurkers. I believe most long term lurkers remain because of the content. But ET can be a forbidding place in its intellectual intensity, and make it hard for some to join in. I doubt if we can do anything about that. Changing the look and feel of the site is not going to influence them.
Members. Some are occasional, some regular, some go off on sabbaticals ;-) The uniting factor is the desire for change in the RW and some pride in belonging to a community that promotes change.

There are subsets of members, but the FP is not an issue. Different tools could be improved though, and we must thank eg Someone for showing us that there is still life in Scoop

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 08:48:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm wondering about the concept of identifying a "best of" ET, that would be narrower that the indices ; it would be useful for the first two categories, and possibly interesting for Lurkers and Members, who haven't been here for such a long time, and may be interested in discovering older stuff they may have missed . It already exists in the wiki, but that one seems to have fallen out of use (Is it the right tool for the job ? Is it too hard to access ?).

Would there be interest in identifying such a list ?

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 09:05:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Excellent ecology of visitors (none / 0)

This is a good base to work on. And I understand that your goal is to find a way to make the front page more friendly to the first two categories, and to "hook" them convincingly. and i support that goal, obviously.

One idea I'm throwing here would be to have a box (maybe called "resources") with a small number of items, which would link to specific pages - either a diary if a comprehensive one already exists (like the one on the French economy written with afew), or a series of selected diaries, ideally with a short summary there. I can think of the following headline topics (in bold a shorter selection)

on European energy
on relations with Russia
on Iran
on NATO and Atlanticism
on the Anglo Disease
on "reform"
on bubbles Greenspan
on Peak Oil
on energy technology
on inequality
on unions
on object blogging (train, clock, bridge, wind farms)
on the European Union
on the media
on election coverage
on sustainability

(not a preferred list, or a complete one, just things that come to my mind and presumably reflect my interests rather than that of the whole community for now, so to be updated)

A separate box could be the one suggested by linca above, with the same for topics of more interest to the community (photoblogging, etc...)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 10:25:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Excellent ecology of visitors (none / 1)

I think it's a good idea. I would add: "on GDP and other economic figures" and "on Unemployment". I also think we should adapt some titles: for example, "Anglo-Disease" makes sense to those who have followed the series, but doesn't speak to newcomers. "on the Financial Crisis" would be better.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 10:39:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Along with this could be a Kos-like tag system, wherein new diaries are tagged according to the appropriate topic. Then, in addition to the short selection of top diaries, there could be a link to current diaries with the current tag, or something to that effect.

by Zwackus on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 11:29:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Excellent ecology of visitors (none / 1)

Yes. It is really about bringing the wiki element ('accumulated knowledge') to the fore for those two categories - but also as reference for members. (We do after all revisit a lot of subjects and there is much essential past writing)

My guess is that we have room to give prominence to only half a dozen items. We can argue which would be the key items. 'European Union' might be too broad, 'Greenspan' too narrow - but whichever are finally chosen they should be aimed at visitors, and thus framed in the terms that they would recognize.

The summaries (which I think important) should be positional statements that reflect the ET consensus. I realise that might be difficult, and therefore I suggest that the summaries are 'signed' by an individual, appearing as diaries under the FP links. The 'diaries' would be the summary, plus the list of links. And basically not for commenting - only updated with new links.

I also believe that faces are important to make an instant connection. I would have explain why in more detail, but it has certainly been an effective tool that I have used with corporate communications. I.E. in this case, face + nick + brief outline of skills and experience (without revealing too much RW detail). Maybe this is not a first concern ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 11:41:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Excellent ecology of visitors (none / 1)

A face attached to communication lends creditability to the communication.

Why?

No idea. Just 'tis. (Actually I do have an idea but it can't be stated simply and I've bored everybody enough, already.)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 01:57:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It used to be a classic of TV ads that the ideal testimonial size on the screen should be the same perspective size as someone sitting across from your kitchen table. That was fine in the days when screens were more uniform in size and the viewing distance similar.

Don't work anymore. Nor testimonials for that matter ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 02:02:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That intimates the size of a YouTube type visual needs to be significantly larger than the dinky little screens now used.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 02:23:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obviously we don't want to make the whole thing too complicated, but another idea would be to allow members to tag themselves (under user info or settings) under a number of headings - e.g. EU, Politics, Energy, Sociology, Management. This would create special interest groups of members interested in - e.g. EU - who would could have their own discussion area/debate area/ collaborative writing space, and who would be notified if a diary/story with that tag is published.

I find that there is a lot of stuff going through ET (and other sites) and to avoid info overload you have to be selective in what you look at. Titles are sometimes misleading and you can miss stuff you would really have been interested in. Obviously your tags wouldn't preclude you from having access to other stuff as well - it would just be a way of selectively channeling content your way and building specialist sub-communities - important as the user base gets bigger.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 02:04:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Response moved to new location.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 02:32:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ET/IB Discussion - Meta (none / 1)

This discussion needs to be sliced-out and made into its own Diary/Debate -- I suggest the latter, but I lack gnomic powers. ;-)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 12:52:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET/IB Discussion - Meta (4.00 / 2)

I have created a debate based (very clumsily) on this discussion.

Please feel free to move there.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 02:23:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]