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this sounds like we need a second site, which would be the repository of the "wisdom" created on ET, ie finished products:

  • diaries that aim at synthetizing earlier discussions (which may have taken place over various diaries and over long periods);

  • letters to editors, articles, etc edited via ET.

Which brings us back to our discussion about the thinktank and Et-stamped publications, ie to approval and/or vetting process.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 02:45:45 PM EST
IMHO the software should be integrated. Think of it as rather like wikipedia's articles and their attached discussion pages, etc.

There can be layers of content and not everything on the site needs to be an article with comments, though it doesn't hurt if it is. The same article and the same comments can be presented visually in different ways. In fact, each ET diary and each comment are stored separately in the database, which links them logically and allows them to be displayed on the same browser page. The possibilities are endless when it comes to content and its presentation.

Personally, I think if content (including comments) could have a revision history and multiple people able to edit it, we'd go a long way towards achieving the flexibility we need for cooperative work.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 02:50:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think a Wiki here is the right solution to the wrong problem. And I don't think the software should be integrated, because we'll probably send so much time trying to integrate it that we won't get anything else done. (qv language localisation for Scoop.)

J is right - we need a separate press arm/think-tank sending out press releases and papers.

The front page is more or less irrelevant as far as journalists are concerned. I don't see a problem with that, because reachable journalists need to be reached actively. We can't assume they'll come here just because we want them to, and I don't think we should retool a page that's doing a different job to try to attract them.

The work-in-progress Wiki idea doesn't solve the problems we need to have solved. Wikis are fine for subject-specific knowledge bases, but PR and journalist outreach has to be done differently - you can't just say 'Look at our excellent Wiki!' and expect anyone to be interested.

So the front page is not the place for sound bites. If it's there for anything it's to demonstrate the ET brand, and the rather chaotic nature of the front page is fine for that. It's no more or less coherent than a newspaper, and I think that's how it should be.

The narratives should be distilled into regular dated op-eds and formal papers and placed into a repository. When we have an interesting point to make, we turn them into a press release with one or two soundbites, attach a PDF of slightly more detailed key points, and include links to one or more papers with background information.

Papers can be Wikified, but more as a collaborative tool than as a developing database. Wikis aren't ideal for position papers or op-eds, but they're good for evolving background histories and glossaries.

Finished papers should probably be stored in fixed form as a historical record of points made and not considered a work in progress. That way we can always point to them and say 'We told you so' - which is rather harder with a straight Wiki.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 06:34:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When a journalist needs info she uses google. If ET is in the top five, English language, she comes here.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 06:50:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A key question is how we drive internet traffic to ET via google searches etc.  Wiki always seems to come up near the top whenever I google something and I generally go to it because it has a familiar format which I can navigate quickly to find what I want.  Is ET content indexed by Google and do we have any expertise in optimising our google rankings?

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 08:17:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ET has made Google page one on occasion.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 04:38:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now as to who will write the polished papers...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 06:52:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
on your own topics of interest.  

Others have been doing it too--that is, writing articles that are at a high level of editorial quality.  

That is, if I understood this right, the idea was to gather and archive good articles into their own place on the site.  Final editing is just that.  Not rewriting.  

The Fates are kind.

by Gaianne on Fri Jan 4th, 2008 at 05:35:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
but it's hard work for both drafter and editor(s)...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Jan 4th, 2008 at 05:56:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've come round to the view that it is better to keep it here - if Scoop can hande it. I have suggested other software in the past for workshopping and I don't give up that dream, but the site as it is seems to be producing good content and it is fairly friction free in maintnance.

What we are talking about is tweaking to gain momentum, without radically changing the nature of the beast.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 02:52:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know about a second site, that's up to them wot pay the bills.  :-0  

There is a nice little cleavage between ET-as-Blog and ET-as-Information Base.  The latter is essentially 'static' and Write-Once.  From an IB design POV the internal interconnections 'twixt and 'tween can be easily handled with the standard GUI keeping the long term storage costs to a minimum.  

(Pointers are Your Friend.)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 03:33:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm all for a EuroTribopedia. The problem is, that's what the ET Wiki was supposed to be and it fell flat. What allows wikipedia to thrive is, in no small measure, that the discussion pages and the user and user-talk namespaces provide support a community not unlike a community blog.

There should be a single site with shared logins, because asking people to maintain separate accounts and log on to the separate sites would totally defeat the purpose. Also, the community lives on the community blog in our case.

Ideally, the "static" content would be another "section" of the ET site.

It is already possible to organise the same information in more than one way. For instance, look at

http://www.eurotrib.com/section/Diary

and

http://www.eurotrib-com/user/Migeru/Diary

As I said before, we don't need a more complicated database except possibly for revision history and multiple authorship of content. The way the database is displayed is up to our imagination (as illustrated by the "general" vs. "personal" diary views above).

See also

http://www.eurotrib.com/section/News

http://www.eurotrib.com/section/Debates

http://www.eurotrib.com/section/Indices

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 03:46:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ack the problem with ET Wiki.  I can think of a couple of ways to hack around the problems. All of 'em require the source code needs to be hacked or intensive human effort.  Neither approach is realistic.

How easy is it to hack into the Scoop User Interface code?  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 04:30:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh gods, goddesses, and all the ships at sea; Scoop is written in Perl.  

I keep repressing that fact.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 04:37:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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