Redoing ET's front page | 145 comments (145 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Graphic design (none / 1)

Right. We've discussed overall re-design objectives, mission statements, target users, attracting user traffic, desired functionality, usability, information architecture, content tagging, user tagging, technical constraints of scoop etc.

The bit that's missing for me is the overall graphic design and look and feel of the site. I'm not suggesting we should go all flash - that would be too much of a culture shock for lefty, nerdy types (I'm joking!!!!!) but the overall graphic design has a very important psychological effect in giving new users a sense of what we're about.

I'm also not aware of the technical constraints of scoop so what follows may be a bit academic. Neither am I a graphic designer - so what I am suggesting may be hopelessly off base - but at least I want to introduce the topic for discussion.

Too me lots of white space divided by thin black lines, HTML code and blue text is cold, antiseptic, overloaded with text and slightly intimidating. The buttons at the top of the page should look like buttons. Daily Kos has a bit more design/colour but I don't like the dirty brown orange which is much too dominant.

To me there isn't enough of a visual contrast between the navigation menus at the left and content pane in the centre. The colours are too stark, and there is insufficent use of shading. There seems to be a lot of potentially useful space unused on the right below the logo, and the key pages - Home, Diary, Comments, user pages should probably be subtly colour coded so you know intuitively where you are without having to figure it out.

Overall the sense is of a wordy content rich site, but there is no visual sense of warmth, conviviality, fun, community, who's knocking around for a chat. Nothing flashes at you if somebody has responded to your comment, you don't get a round of applause if 10 people recommend your diary....

OK the above isn't entirely serious, but you get what I mean - there is no use of sound, little use of colour shading, or animation, few visual navigation cues, and there is no sense of sitting in a warm welcoming sitting room where you can see who's around looking for a chat, with books on the shelf, drinks in the fridge, and a ticker tape of new diaries at the bottom. The site should look like what we are...

Am I of the wall?

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 at 09:36:13 PM EST

Re: Graphic design (4.00 / 2)

I do like the light on the eyes design. And I may not be the best to comment ; I have been using scoop since 2001, so I'm quite used to it.

Too much shading, different colors, could get tiring and annoying - the trap is overdoing those. Subtle is the keyword...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 03:37:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Graphic design (none / 1)

I think the site could be more welcoming, but we should also keep it sober.

A feature which tells us when a comment has been replied to would be very useful.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 04:23:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Graphic design (none / 1)

A feature which tells us when a comment has been replied to would be very useful.

Yes!

by Loefing on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 07:31:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Graphic design (none / 1)

I believe a user page displaying not the latest user comments but the latest replies to a user's comments would not be too hard to code.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 07:36:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Graphic design (none / 0)

It would be useful because, when you feed the Salon, a lot of last comments push the previous ones out of the page and you have to go back several pages to find them... The ideal would be not to take into account the Salon's comments because the replies are not aimed at you, but comment the article you're linking to...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 08:28:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Graphic design (none / 0)

It's actually (once again) something in later versions of scoop. At hulver's site for instance, there's a little space in the column on the right where you get links to all new replies to your comments.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 01:46:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Graphic design (none / 0)

I'm for keeping the same colour scheme, by and large. The same blue, at least. The lines could be a bit softer.

What would be good is an integrated top-level banner design, which most blogs have (e.g. if you look at DailyKos or MyDD, you have a banner that is integrated with the top level design, which still provides some functions).

Use of fancy design elements (especially: sound, animation, video) will cause the site to load slower, which is bad for the people using it the most. I'm for a clearer design, but against using large elements that only have a design functionality.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 08:48:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Graphic design (none / 1)

OK I'm reading the words subtle, sober, softer and a generally conservative approach to design change. I don't have a problem with this, but felt that any comprehensive site design review had to include a consideration of the graphic design elements - even if the decision is to keep things more or less the same.

The fancy bits - sound, animation etc. should in any case be capable of being switched off by users who don't like them or have a slow connection.

Can I ask a REALLY STUPID QUESTION? Who funds ET -apart from all the voluntary effort?

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 09:51:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Graphic design (none / 1)

The cost of hosting the site is pretty low and it has mostly been defrayed by Jerome, though we have had a couple of fundraising drives, mostly to do with settling a perceived debt to the people who set up the site originally (it differs considerably from what SCOOP looks like out of the box).

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 10:10:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Graphic design (4.00 / 3)

Personally, the designer in me tells me that there may be room room for compromise between a 'Whistles & bells' approach and a 'Soft, subdued look'.

What is vital, imo, is that the FP have a logical, easily navigable presentation, which, most members seem to agree, is lacking in its present state.

I agree wholeheartedly with the observation that a first-time user may find the FP confusing, between the variety of entries in the wide central column and the diaries in a tall right hand column, followed, way, way down, by the blogroll and front-pagers. I also find the presentation lacking in warmth, generally speaking.

The comment about making a more legible, representative banner is very important, imo. Notice the banner on The Oil Drum, for instance. Aesthetic considerations aside, it's efficient, providing good visibility to essential parts of the site at a single glance. -- Imo, the ET FP relies too much on links that are situated 'below the fold', in both the left and right hand columns. Additionally, the Menu box in the left column contains a few redundancies in relation to the menu at the top of the page. I think most of those options, FAQ, Home, About, Search, should be grouped together.

I'll leave my comments at that, for now, and will see if I can't grab the time to make a list of what I would consider structural and design improvements, taking into account what is being expressed, here.

I'd just add that this is a very important discussion, in my view. ET is full of content that is as superb as it is unique ... as well as fun. As it stands, the site is great, but it could be greater still through a more coherent structure, and with perhaps a dab of additional warmth.

by Loefing on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 09:45:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Graphic design (4.00 / 3)

Graphics affect download time. The average human response expectation is 5 seconds. (Really.) As more fluff-n-stuff is added to the Front Page, initial site access area, the greater the likelihood of frustrating and turning-away new or new-ish users.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Mon Dec 31st, 2007 at 12:55:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Graphic design (4.00 / 3)

See Jakob Nielsen: Response Time: The Three Important Limits

The basic advice regarding response times has been about the same for ~~thirty~~ forty years [Miller 1968; Card et al. 1991]:

0.1 second is about the limit for having the user feel that the system is reacting instantaneously, meaning that no special feedback is necessary except to display the result.

1.0 second is about the limit for the user's flow of thought to stay uninterrupted, even though the user will notice the delay. Normally, no special feedback is necessary during delays of more than 0.1 but less than 1.0 second, but the user does lose the feeling of operating directly on the data.

10 seconds is about the limit for keeping the user's attention focused on the dialogue. For longer delays, users will want to perform other tasks while waiting for the computer to finish, so they should be given feedback indicating when the computer expects to be done. Feedback during the delay is especially important if the response time is likely to be highly variable, since users will then not know what to expect.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 11:36:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Graphic design (none / 0)

I would be very surprised if any use of shading, revised colours, visual cues etc. had any impact on response times whatsoever. You are talking about using templates into which the content is poured. I'm not technical enough to explain the process, but with a well designed - even glitzy - site page file sizes need not be an issue.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 08:02:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Graphic design (4.00 / 2)

Sounds do ; Flash do. It is at those elements that lengthen page load times. Overuse of graphic buttons rather than pure text also does - and limits accessibility.

After that there is the matter of taste ; graphic designers and typographers recommend limiting font use to at most three on a single page...

And the more different elements are incorporated into a page, the harder it is to do tastefully, too. Simple design avoids horrible results - and it seems we are a bit short on professional designers here, halas.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 at 08:10:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Graphic design (none / 0)

I wouldn't want flash, sounds are a nice to have optional extra which should be a user preference if it is there at all. I don't like multiple fonts and programmers doing graphic design. So I guess we are stuck with what we have!

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jan 4th, 2008 at 05:57:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Graphic design (none / 0)

Wait time frustration is cumulative, as well.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 11:46:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Excellent topic (4.00 / 4)

This is important, and needs to be worked on by someone with visual design talents and skills.

But I disagree, personally, about motion and sound. I hate motion and sound. Not only do they slow things down (on my clunky computer), but they distract from content, rather than supporting it.

I think graphic design should be subliminal: Pleasing and visually telegraphing the concept of ET, but not standing out separately from the content at all.

We think we are a substantive site (if fun), we should communicate that, and not appear flashy or glitzy on first sight.

The Fates are kind.

by Gaianne on Fri Jan 4th, 2008 at 06:10:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not enough white space (4.00 / 2)

The is not enough white space actually. There are too many explicit dividing lines. These could be done away with if unrelated items were more properly separated.

For example, there is no need for an explicit line between any of the three columns, since each of those parts content is aligned to its margin; an implicit line appears anyway.

Similarly there is not enough contrast in sizes; headlines could be twice as big (char. size), and intro texts half as long (content size).

Something needs to be done about the logo. Either have it done properly by an artist, or replace it with pure text.

I'm not a graphic designer, but I have worked on UI for some time now.

If I have time I will whip up a mock-up, and even a custom CSS.

A 'centrist' is someone who's neither on the left, nor on the left.

by nicta (nico＠altiva․fr) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 08:01:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

screenshot (4.00 / 4)

This is a rough draft. Need more space to breath, character sizes are off, etc.

A 'centrist' is someone who's neither on the left, nor on the left.

by nicta (nico＠altiva․fr) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 10:37:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Redoing ET's front page | 145 comments (145 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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