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Ok, assuming for one second (I know, this is going to be hard) we (America) are not establishing missile defense systems in Poland and the Czech Republic in order to protect them in case Iran decides to bomb Brno or something (though I am sure that's at the top of their to-do list...), why on earth are we even considering such a move?

Are the Poles and Czechs really that vulnerable, even from big scary Russia?  Does anyone actually think we're going to see WWIII not in the Middle East, but in Eastern Europe?  Seriously, I have a problem accepting this.  Even if I imagine for a minute we'd do this to get Polish and Czech signatures and bodies for our new war in Iran, a deal which they'd be mad to agree to, aren't these countries already protected by all kinds of treaties and such?  Why do they need or want our missile defense system?  And doesn't the EU have a say in this type of thing?  

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Thu Feb 15th, 2007 at 05:54:43 PM EST
Why do you think the EU has a say on the foreign policy of its member states?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 15th, 2007 at 06:26:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Great, so is it going to start exercising its right to have that say, or is it going to, once again, talk a lot, fall apart and play dead when tested by the Bush administration?  I'm not optimistic.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Feb 16th, 2007 at 01:56:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What right to have a say?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 16th, 2007 at 02:30:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The one you mention that I was replying to.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Feb 16th, 2007 at 02:42:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And why does the EU have that right?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 16th, 2007 at 02:50:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
E U = Economic Union. That's what it is. Nothing else.
Ok I know its European Union but it really hasn't much of the power ...even economically. All though it's nice wish...dream...whatever.


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Fri Feb 16th, 2007 at 08:12:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not only that, apparently even the proposed EU constitution is a step back from the Treaty on European Union:
As regards the decision-making process, the Commission will not have the power to submit proposals in CFSP matters. The Council of Ministers continues to decide by unanimous vote in most cases and the Member States will have the right of veto. Compared with the EU Treaty, the Constitution limits the CFSP instruments, restricting them to European decisions and international agreements. The use of legislative instruments such as European laws and framework laws is excluded.


"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 16th, 2007 at 08:20:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Pick an answer, which ever one you like the best:

candid:  Because I, like most non-Europeans, and I am guessing a fair amount of Europeans, don't  know what the hell the function of the EU is right now.

or

mean:  Mig, one day Europe will earn the right to have a smug patronizing attitude, but for the time being, Europe is still relying on NATO to protect it from Russians and Iranians or whomever else they imagine wants to harm them.   So long as you need America to protect you, you should be nicer to us. :P

or

snarky:  Oh, I don't know, the last time you decided not to have a say in matters of the defense of the Czechs, something rather terrible happened, didn't it?  

or

reasoned:  Because one is inclined to think that a governmental body representing a union of states, nations, individuals, whatever, would take an interest in matters which impact the interests, goals, etc of their membership and which promote or violate the values upon which that body has been founded.  I know the UN is not terribly good at doing anything about anything, but at the very least there is a forum in which people can at least have a say in matters which concern them...  As someone else said, if anything, this missile defense system would seem to be inviting trouble.  I understand the EU's policy of allowing sovereign nations to protect themselves, but as with America, which can go and protect itself however it sees fit, there is at least some veneer of UN oversight which we have to run circles around before we invade a country.   And while it's not like Poland or the CR are planning any invasions, I do think that buildup of American military and defense encircling Russia is unnecessarily hostile and that it does impact Europe's interests (uh, hello, don't you guys want their gas?)...   And while it might be the EU's current policy not to meddle in the foreign policy of member states, I should think the recent CIA flights would have someone reconsidering that policy...

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Fri Feb 16th, 2007 at 01:39:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Candid: I can live with that.

Mean: Europe need America to defend it, says who? America? And who thinks Iran (or Russia, for that matter) is a direct military threat to Europe?

Snarky: don't mention the war!

Snarky2: if we're appeasing someone right now, it's the US.

reasoned: taking an interest in matters doesn't mean having a say in them, or even a right to have a say. The common foreign and security policy of the EU, constitutionally, must be agreed unanimously by the governments of the member states. The UN security  council can actually make decisions by qualified majority, by virtue of its constituent treaty.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 16th, 2007 at 02:46:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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