The Republic of Far, Far Away [Update] | 27 comments (27 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: The Republic of Far, Far Away (4.00 / 3)

the bias in media is, at least, familiar.

Having followed American politics via Internet for the last few years, I can't help thinking of the American media every day in this French campaign. Even the So-Called Librul Media (.FR) take on the cloak of "neutrality" and "balance" while they amplify a totally distorted view of the facts.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 05:53:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Republic of Far, Far Away (4.00 / 4)

In a parallel comment you say

As you say, the media don't count any of this as the least false note in Sarko's campaign. There are no false notes in Sarko's campaign.

It may be that those of us who have been paying attention to American media are better equipped to see what's going on in Europe. It's actually pretty disturbing, and I wonder how much power alternative media really have. We have suggested before that DKos thrived in the vacuum left by the MSM. I want to hope that in Europe we can draw from the American experience and make a difference.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 06:20:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The problem is (4.00 / 4)

In France, semi-alternative media do exist and have some circulation : Canard Enchaîné and Charlie Hebdo, for example, which run no advertising, are widely available. Libé is quite left-wing among the dailies. Arrêt sur Image, a media criticising show is available on all French TVs...

Those media all have their problems, but it seems they don't have any real influence... There is no real vacuum to be filled by websites, as alternatives are already available.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 06:44:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

TV is a lot more concentrated in France (4.00 / 2)

we do have cable and satellite, but they reach smaller audiences, and thus the main TV channels still hold disproportionate influence.

And TF1, the first channel is private and unashamedly on the right. Its owner is Bouygues, the construction group that thrives on public contracts, and its boss, Martin Bouygues, is an old personal friend of Sarkozy.

And its journalists/stars (they spend more time in the "people" section of magazines" than working, it seems sometimes) are more interested in protecting their cozy relationships with those in power and with money.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 07:13:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: TV is a lot more concentrated in France (4.00 / 2)

What I'm arguing is that there already are some media critical of the Sarkozist MSM, and they are unable to counter the narrative of the MSM, usually at least.

However, for the 2005 Constitution referendum, they were able to counter the yes campaign. But it seems the MSM is campaigning much more strongly against Segolène than for the constitution.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 07:53:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The problem is (4.00 / 3)

It's a bit contradictory, what you say. Alternative media do exist, (as per your list, and I just watched Arrêt sur images..!) But, as you say, it seems they don't have any real influence. So it seems to me there is a gap to be filled. A democracy gap, because at the moment the broader perceptions of the French are being manipulated by the MSM.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 07:48:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The problem is (none / 1)

I'm not sure the undecided voters are more likely to be decided by blogs than by the semi-MSM media... I'm afraid those undecided voters are mostly found in the semi-informed.

At least in America with its importance of money, fundraising has a chance of making changes - but there is no such mechanism in France that grassroots could leverage.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 07:58:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The problem is (4.00 / 5)

I don't see it as persuading the undecided or the swing voters, but creating a new medium that has influence on the rest of the media.

And that can also federate the roots and give them a fresh impulse.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 08:03:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

On journalists (4.00 / 4)

A good comment in this discussion thread about Le Monde's not unreasonable editorial about citizen journalists...

esko : Des vrais journalistes n'accepteraient pas de jouer les faire-valoir les 14 juillet, date où le PR accepte, la SEULE FOIS dans l'année, de répondre (sic) aux questions. Des vrais journalistes refuseraient la Légion d'Honneur. Des vrais journalistes n'accepteraient pas de se faire tutoyer par des hommes politiques. Des vrais journalistes n'accepteraient pas de rester dans un service politique lorsqu'ils couchent avec des politiques. Parmi les plus connus, faites le compte de ceux qui restent...

Real journalists would not accept to play the PR game of the 14 July interview (the only time in the year when the President even accepts to answer questions). Real journalists would refuse the Légion d'honneur. Real journalists would not accept to be tutoyés (spoken to with the familiar "tu" rather than the formal "vous"). Real journalists wouls leave the political dept. of their paper/TV if they slept with a politician. Count how many that leaves amongst well known journalists...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 07:10:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On journalists (4.00 / 3)

Le Monde talked about the malaise of professional commentators and pundits at a time when "anyone can editorialize on Internet"! Well, I hope they do feel malaise. About time. :-)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 07:55:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On journalists (none / 0)

I'm sorry but this is nothing but extreme-left anarchistic standpoints :

the 14th of July exercise is a ritualised press-conference where the president "answers" questions. It's not very different from some WH press-conferences. It's supposed to be softball. Try to ask a nasty question to a US president and you'll never be invited again. Besides Chirac does other press conferences, often abroad and does "answer" questions even from French journalists covering the event. As all presidents do. It's the name of the game in many (all?) countries (even in Nordic countries) so what is the "real journalist" supposed to do ? watch TV and comment ? Mr Clean ?

Refuse the Legion of Honor ? why not abolish it when you are at it. This is only posturing.

the "tutoyer" story is a false debate too. It mainly happens in infotainment's programs when the politician want to show he is "one of the guys"... big deal...

About the last one, there is a real problem. But it concerns only a minority. And nobody can accuse Christine Ockrent or Anne Sinclair of doing a bad job because one is married to Kouchner and the other to DSK.

The author of the comment seems to ignore the fact that the vast majority of French journalists are leaning to the left and the ones on the other side a minority, and a well known one. Too bad if the lefties can't avoid Segolene's blunders. Probably we wouldn't have heard this comment (except from a right-winger) when a socialist is in charge. Normally in the later case the public-service is compared to the Pravda.

Real information, vital information always leak out, sooner or later. For whatever interests it may serve.

I think that the problem with the French media (besides the fact that the system lacks "automatic" transparency like in the Nordic countries, but that's another story) is that French journalists (as many other journalists in other countries) have a very high opinion of themselves and prefer to drink wine at the local Café with their friends and wonder what pun could be the neat one for the latest headline of the article they copy from Reuters or AFP, instead of doing investigating journalism. Because the later is so much harder to do, and in the end the paycheck won't be higher. This is the real problem with journalism, not stories of "tutoiement"and decorations.

by oldfrog on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 10:50:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On journalists (4.00 / 5)

The tutoiement story arises from the fact that Sarkozy deliberately calls political journalists following his campaign "tu" so as to create a false buddy-buddy atmosphere.

It was discussed on Arrêt sur image last week with Philippe Ridet, who follows NS around for Le Monde. Asked why he accepted this compromising familiarity, Ridet said he personally found it difficult to use the formal "vous" with someone who called him "tu". One wonders how many people, and which ones, he would apply this precept to!?

This is all about "access", and the political figure handing out favours. And journalists playing the game instead of keeping the necessary professional distance.

I don't agree with your final paragraph. True, there is insufficient investigative journalism in France. But your picture of journalists spending their time swigging wine while thinking up puns is yet another of the reactionary stereotypes you like to spout.

Tell us rather about the "automatic" transparence of Nordic journalists. How does that work?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 11:53:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On journalists (4.00 / 4)

the Swedes have a law where every act related to government (even local) must be public. There are few exceptions like defense and medical records for example + investigation secrets from police and judges (to protect the presumption of innocence).

which means practically that any journalist can walk up to any public office and ask them to open their files and they cannot deny. Any file entering and leaving an admnistration must have a special number, according a special system. Both the computer/paper file must be archived at least 10 years. If a civil servant "loses" a file, they often get into trouble.

if somebody within a public (or private) office "leaks" information because he/she finds out that something illegal or immoral is happening, that person cannot be prosecuted. If the person remains anonymous which is often the case, it is forbidden in law to try to trace that person.

to go back to the original discussion : the rat game between people of power and journalists has always existed and of course is worse in a non-transparent system (thus the Nordic comparison). Of course there are media whores in France but sometimes I wonder if they get to the level of Judith Miller, not to talk about "creations" like Jeff Gannon. So talking about "vous" and "tu", organized receptions and legion of honors, not mentioning who is sleeping with who is only the top of the iceberg. If the journalist culture was more into investigation and real interrogation about what is really going on, the French media would be better. Whining about "look at the American freedom of press (???)" or the "BBC is best" won't help. When will French journalist organisations act for lawmaking "à la Swedish" ? I bet that 99% of them don't even know it exists.

that was my point and obviously irony isn't understood.

by oldfrog on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 03:00:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On journalists (4.00 / 3)

If the journalist culture was more into investigation and real interrogation about what is really going on, the French media would be better.

Sure, I agree with that. But I think the main reason is not happening is that the media belong mostly to private interests who have consolidated their power over the last twenty years, and who have no intention of paying people to work as you say.

Sorry if my irony detector was on the blink...

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 04:05:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On journalists (4.00 / 2)

Ridet said he personally found it difficult to use the formal "vous" with someone who called him "tu". One wonders how many people, and which ones, he would apply this precept to!?

I'm like that. Even when I don't feel comfortable using the familiar with someone, if they consistently address me that way I'll start finding my use of the formal somewhat awkward. It might have something to do with the fact that my primary linguistic socialization was in English, but even there you have the first name thing going which I find annoying from people who I don't know and am not interacting with in an informal setting, but I still tend to swallow my discomfort and go along.

by MarekNYC on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 03:34:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On journalists (4.00 / 3)

It's still a lousy explanation for a professional at Ridet's level to offer for accepting Sarko's patronising behaviour.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 03:58:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'd suggest air quote. (none / 0)

Both for phony first names are for inappropriate familiar tu/vous (tu/Vd.).

As the older rock critic reminded the young protagonist in Almost Famous ... they are the enemy (or maybe that was a member of the band telling the protagonist 'you are the enemy').

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Feb 19th, 2007 at 09:21:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Again, bleh (4.00 / 5)

You take a literal view to dismiss what are very real problems

there are alwmost never hardball questions to politicians, on 14 July or otherwise. But that 14 July interview is symbolic of the sycophantic nature of the top political journalists;
the Legion d'Honneur, similarly, is a symptom of political journalists being institutionalised and being fully integrated in the system. Look at who the top names are - they've been around for as long as Chirac, Sarkozy or Royal - or longer. The head of Europe 1 is Elkabbach. His sidekick 25 years ago, Jean-Marie Cavada (until recently, the head of Radio-France, and previously of France Television), is now a MEP for Bayrou's UDF. PPDA is the Establishment's Establishment. Duhamel, who's paying today for having admitted his preference for Bayrou, has been around for more than 20 years. Catherine Nay, Michele Cotta, Anne Sinclair, etc..; have been around for ages. They go on holiday with politicians, sleep with them, are godparents to one another's kids and live the exact same lives in the same circles. And the same goes with the owners of the media, the Bouygues, Lagardère or Dassault families.
the "tu" is part of that as well - it reflects that these people know each other too well (and I saw that the two times I was in the Europe 1 studio last month: all of these people are very obviously intimate and friendly with one another, even when in opposite political sides.
as to the intimate relationships, it's a LOT more widespread than you pretend. It's pervasise, and most of the insiders know about it, and they protect one another.

And you can call me populist or extreme-lefty all you want, it's your credibility that's at stake when you say that, not mine.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 12:16:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Again, bleh (none / 1)

I don't call you extreme left, I just state the the writer of the comment falls into that kind of attitude.

The original comment transpires that kind of "rebellious" attitude that the "true journalists" would all be like the people at Charlie Hebdo, the rest is only media whores.

Talk about a simplistic attitude.

I don't go the 14th of July party
I refuse the Legion of Honor
I only say vous to everybody
I immediately resign from my job if my wife goes into politics.

I am a true journalist

by oldfrog on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 03:09:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Again, bleh (none / 1)

Speaking of simplistic attitudes, you just proved that I'm a wiking. True wikings don't have horned helmets. I don't have a horned helmet, so I am a wiking selon vous.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 03:50:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Again, bleh (4.00 / 4)

Charlie Hebdo is not the only newspaper following these rules. Libération, for example had only one journalist that had received the Legion d'Honneur - and that was for a reporter wounded in a war zone.

These rules are basic deontology - do not become a client of the people one is reporting on. Or stop claiming the press is independant.

The Legion d'Honneur was specifically created to make sure the fonctionnaires would obey Napoleon - as a carrot.

Accepting to be entertained by politicians, to get on overly friendly terms with them, does end up making friends of journalists and politicians, even lovers. Friendship is certainly not independance.

This connivence between the aristocracy of French journalists and editorialists and politicians is a large part of the reason politicians rarely get hardball questions that are followed upon. One simply doesn't verbally assault a friend.

Indeed if Royal is getting such a rough treatment in the media, it might be because she didn't have the sort of friendships Sarkozy depends on, (with people like Elkabbach), or Strauss-Kahn or Fabius would have had.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 03:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Republic of Far, Far Away (4.00 / 3)

I'm not sure if the French media are any better in this regard than the American media. It's difficult to determine, however, because of the different nature of the two country's elites - the French ones are far less ideological. There isn't the genuine ideological commitment to neo-liberal socio-economic policy, and in foreign affairs they're both less ideological (Bush I, not Bush II) and much more limited due to France having less power to get stuff done. Chirac and co. remind me a lot more of big city political machines writ large than the Cheney, DeLay, Norquist, AEI, et al. American right wing machine. They're in it for the perks, the power, and the money but not into anything more.

That said, Jerome has already pointed out that the French media is dominated by government infrastructure and defense contractors - the French equivalents of Bechtel and Lockheed Martin. I've also noticed a rather annoying lack of critical curiousity as to France's policies and actions in Africa - the one place where France does resemble the US imperialist model.

Furthermore the incestuousness of America's journalists and politicians is somewhat offset by the fact that the Republican political elites to a certain degree come from a different social milieu than the journalistic ones, the latter tend to emerge from the sort of big metro area bourgeoisie educated at elite institutions that resembles the French model. The latter are more liekly to be from geographically dispersed local business elites.

by MarekNYC on Sun Feb 18th, 2007 at 03:55:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Republic of Far, Far Away [Update] | 27 comments (27 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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