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I've always had the notion that slavery in America was a purely black African affair, but according to this copy of a page from an out of print book my father has, it was not. Tormut Rose was an officer in the Scottish Convenater army led by General David Leslie to drive Cromwell's forces from Scotland, retain the independence of the Scottish church, and restore Charles II to the throne of Scotland and England (that having been brought into personal union in 1604.) In 1650, after having driven the English back to Dunbar, the Scottish army came upon Cromwell's forces, but on the advice of preachers did not attack on a Sunday. Crowell's forces launched a sneak attack on the Scots that night, killing hundreds, and capturing the rest.
Fearing that the prisoners would only rise again if released, Cromwell, ordered them force marched to Durham, and from there deported to English colonial possessions in the Americas. Once in America, Tormut was sold into slavery to work in Saugus Iron Works, America's first integrated ironworks. From 1650 to roughly 1660 he was held as labor for the Iron Works. In 1660, he and others were release. Somehow his freedom was purchased. Later that year his son would found a settlement at Block Island in Rhode Island.
I've been able to confirm several things, there was a Battle at Dunbar in 1650, the survivors were deported to America. There was an ironworks at Saugus, but on the webpage of the offical historical site, there is no mention of Scottish slaves. I have a few questions, and I'm hoping that the UK continegent can help me out.
How many Scots were deported by Cromwell to the Americas?
Is it plausible that they were held in slavery?
How did they gain their freedom? Was there a subscription at the churches like when Christian were captured and held as slaves by Muslin Corsairs in Morrocco? Did the Scottish Goverment buy their freedom? Is it just that the Cromwell government fell?
If Tormut Rose was brought to America, and sold as a slave, then there's an entire American history of which most people here know nothing. And has not been acknowledge officially by the US government. Of course this was during the colonial period, so the truth mat lay in London rather than Washington. I just have to wonder if my family came to America as Scottish slaves, how many others have the same heritage and don't even know it? And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
I didn't want to diary because I have no links. And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
So is golf.
;-) She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
I want to flesh it out. Laurent just posted something about Irish slaves in the English colonies. So it wasn't just the Scots. The source he has says that the number of Irish deported and sold as slaves in America between 1650 and 1660, exceeded the number of free inhabitants. If true this means that most white Americans with ancestors in New England before 1700 are most likely the desecendents of slaves. And the poor lot of us think that it was just the blacks that where sold like cattle.
So many ways that this changes the history of my country. Slavery has largely been appropriated by the descendants of black slaves in America, and there's this idea that people came to America willingly seeking a better life. And as for Cromwell, this certainly looks like ethnic cleansing on a scale that's hard to imagine. Ick... And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/other/white_slavery.htm
Marcellus Rivers and Oxenbridge Foyle, England's Slaves 1659 consists of a statement smuggled out of the New World and published in London referring to whites in bondage who did not think of themselves as indentured servants but as "England's Slaves" and "England's merchandise." Colonial Office, Public Records Office, London 1667, no. 170 records that "even Blacks referred to the White forced laborers in the colonies as "white slaves." Pages 343 through 346 of Historical Sketch of the Persecutions Suffered by the Catholics of Ireland by; Patrick F. Moran refers to the transportation of the Irish to the colonies as the "slave-trade." Ulrich B. Phillips, Life and Labor in the Old South explain that white enslavement was crucial to the development of the Negro slave system. The system set up for the white slaves governed, organized and controlled the system for the black slaves. Black slaves were "late comers fitted into a system already developed." Pp 25-26. John Pory declared in 1619, "white slaves are our principle wealth." The above quotations from various authors are just the tip of the iceberg on the white slave trade of the Americas. People from the British Isles were kidnapped, put in chains and crammed into ships that transported hundreds of them at a time. Their destination was Virginia Boston, New York, Barbados and the West Indies. The white slaves were treated the same or worse than the black slave. The white slave did not fetch a good price at the auction blocks. Bridenbaugh wrote in his accounting on page 118, having paid a bigger price for the Negro, the planters treated the black better than they did their "Christian" white servant. Even the Negroes recognized this and did not hesitate to show their contempt for those white men who, they could see, were worse off than themselves.
Colonial Office, Public Records Office, London 1667, no. 170 records that "even Blacks referred to the White forced laborers in the colonies as "white slaves." Pages 343 through 346 of Historical Sketch of the Persecutions Suffered by the Catholics of Ireland by; Patrick F. Moran refers to the transportation of the Irish to the colonies as the "slave-trade."
Ulrich B. Phillips, Life and Labor in the Old South explain that white enslavement was crucial to the development of the Negro slave system. The system set up for the white slaves governed, organized and controlled the system for the black slaves. Black slaves were "late comers fitted into a system already developed." Pp 25-26. John Pory declared in 1619, "white slaves are our principle wealth."
The above quotations from various authors are just the tip of the iceberg on the white slave trade of the Americas. People from the British Isles were kidnapped, put in chains and crammed into ships that transported hundreds of them at a time. Their destination was Virginia Boston, New York, Barbados and the West Indies. The white slaves were treated the same or worse than the black slave. The white slave did not fetch a good price at the auction blocks. Bridenbaugh wrote in his accounting on page 118, having paid a bigger price for the Negro, the planters treated the black better than they did their "Christian" white servant. Even the Negroes recognized this and did not hesitate to show their contempt for those white men who, they could see, were worse off than themselves.
see even
http://www.geocities.com/~sconemac/slavery.html
The Forgotten Slaves: Whites in Servitude in Early America and Industrial Britain http://www.revisionisthistory.org/forgottenslaves.html
Why do Welsh names seem to be so common within the African American community ? http://www.data-wales.co.uk/plantations.htm
It looks as though it wasn't just Scots but Irish too.
The link Laurent gives, says that the number of Irish slaves sent in the 1650's exceeded that free population of the colonies. Which would mean that most likely most white Americans with ancestors from that time are descended from white slaves.......
Talk about a mind trip..... And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
Have to be very careful. Electric Scotland looks ok, but revisionist history one is published by a holocaust denier. Hence the desire to gather more sources. I'm seriously thinking about this. Depending on what I find, I think that there may be a book in here. It wouldbe something more meaningful to do with my summer than working in a call center. More enjoyable no less. And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
I suggested posting on Progressive Historians especially because the likelihood of finding a historian of colonial North America there is quite high, and they might give you pointers. "It's the statue, man, The Statue."
You probably didn't mean this to be, but the wording is quite offensive. The descendants of black slaves in America did not "appropriate" slavery -- it is their history -- the slave trade in America was built on their ancestors backs, the whole rationale for slavery in that chapter of history was built on prejudice against them, and their people suffer to this day because of it. The same cannot be claimed by the descendents of white slaves, however brutal the individual circumstances at the time. Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
And ultimately, when we lock one of history's little horrors into a specific context we ensure that it will happen again. Because in doing so we deny that the phenomena is native to the human condition, seeing it as an abberation, rather than a possibility that must be guarded against. And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
What I mean is that the topic is a minefield and one has to be careful not to be interpreted as diminishing the significance of other cases of slavery. And you did mention having to be careful of revisionist sources.
And I agree with your point, it's like holocaust survivors downplaying other genocides, or other massacred people trying to "raise" their "status" to "victims of genocide". The way 'genocide' is abused, so slavery can be abused, in both directions. "It's the statue, man, The Statue."
Time to revisit what Howard Zinn has to say about the colonial period? He does make the case that racism was used in the late 19th century to prevent class solidarity between blacks and poor whites in the South after Emancipation. "It's the statue, man, The Statue."
I agree with your interpretation of the argument -- that this could be used to unify -- and think it's an excellent one to make. However, you should be aware that the very same point is frequently made by racist groups to claim that this nullifies any current claims of prejudice, so it is, as you say, a potential minefield. Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
Death threats.....
</sigh> And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
(I put contract in single quotes to indicate I don't know a better word to use.)
Convict labor was also used and I vaguely remember there were white life-time slaves as well. Eventually (white) people became uncomfortable about owning white slaves and the practice died out. She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
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