Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Thanks!  I should have followed it up: "they thus set out to take advantage of this situation through long-term planning and concerted effort... to discount and dismiss long-term planning and concerted effort in the public's interest."
by andrethegiant on Sun Mar 18th, 2007 at 11:10:43 AM EST
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On the other hand, although the left typically advocates benefits of cooperation, long-term planning and concentrated effort, they did not demonstrated much unity and urgency to apply these strategies politically. Especially in the US, their behaviour is very reflexive, narrow-focused and hardly cooperative.

The neo-liberal and neo-conservative movements are indeed good examples of what long-term planning and concentrated effort can do. If cooperation and long-term planning happens to be an advantage of evolutionary importance... it makes sense to fool others not to cooperate or plan long. The main difference between haves and have-nots of this world I see the following: The haves cooperate actually a lot, by providing each other plenty services (financial, legal, informative, recreational, etc), while have-nots know nothing but to compete with each other, each "cooperating" only with one rich employer, so to speak.

by das monde on Mon Mar 19th, 2007 at 01:06:21 AM EST
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Via Xavier Gorce in Le Monde's electronic newsletter:

Let's unite the left of the left to makes our idea triumph.
Just one issue.
our ideas.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 19th, 2007 at 04:36:59 AM EST
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Cue in a march of the right-wing penguins who don't cara about ideas but just triumph.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 19th, 2007 at 04:40:13 AM EST
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Whatever lame ideas the right has, they bring the message of those ideas with much better conviction. They even have empirical points - look at these people, look at those countries, they are implementing their ideas the best, and they are performing the best. Even if their main tool appears to be well coined rhetorics and mass psychology, their do insert logical arguments which make people make conclusions, perhaps not fully conciously but possibly very effectively. The right can be content with frustrating us with their inconsistent logic, but forcing people to think as they intend much better than us earnestly setting and following academic rules of debating.

Consider for example Krugman's interview at Foxnews. Did he really change many minds?

by das monde on Mon Mar 19th, 2007 at 05:19:00 AM EST
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I'm beginning to resign myself to belonging to a minority culture.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 19th, 2007 at 05:20:21 AM EST
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One of the things the Right does is consistently act like they are in the minority and being attacked.  It has kept them unified in the face of danger (reason) for quite a while now.  In fact, Hayek's whole foundation is based on  the presumed end of "Western Civilization."  They have milked that cow for 50 years.  It's rather astounding.
by andrethegiant on Mon Mar 19th, 2007 at 08:19:45 AM EST
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From the first diary you link:
In print, Krugman is a master. But he's not suited for the television age. He stammers. A man of fairly short stature to begin with, he slouches in his chair, like he's taking up as little space as possible. He allows people to talk over him and interrupt him to get in their little bon mots and sidetrack him from his reasoned arguments. Most damningly, he has trouble making eye contact, and often looks away and down at the table when he speaks, which could give the impression that he's dishonest.
Hey, I stammer too. When I was a graduate student in California I started picking up cues in other people's speech that they stammered (or had in the past).

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 19th, 2007 at 05:31:24 AM EST
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Dropped the last line in my comment...

The point is, I was amazed at the number of people I would have bet stammered.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 19th, 2007 at 05:46:13 AM EST
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stammer ['stamər] verb [ intrans. ] speak with sudden involuntary pauses and a tendency to repeat the initial letters of words.

Stammering, especially on TV, would a problem to me as well.

I checked the video once more, and I have to say, I did not see much stammering of Krugman until the last 55 seconds. He looked pretty comfortable, and was not hiding eyes. The description above does not really apply to this video. In particular, Krugman's face language was good when Cavuto mentioned 9/11 first time, and still fine even when he was accused of lying.

There were 2 appearance problems for Krugman: Cavuto was not allowing to talk and finish arguments around the middle point of the interview, and then 1-2 min. before the end. And with the last minute, Krugman was flattered by Cavuto saying how great economy now must be despite "corporate" and "stock" bubbles collapsing (presumably in 2000).

But on the other hand, Krugman did not have much interesting to say. His main argument was that "majority of people do not think that the economy is great" - which is a weak proposition. (How does he know what people think?) Foxnews viewers had to hear more how unequal the wealth distribution is.

by das monde on Mon Mar 19th, 2007 at 06:24:52 AM EST
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Yeah...he should have been more forceful and perhaps sarcastic: You think the economy is great? How much credit card debt do you have?  How big is your mortgage compared to your salary?  How many kids do you have to feed? Is Fox going to ship your job overseas to a place with no worker protections?  Is health care a problem for you?

Taking a cue from the Lakoff school, a little laughter, pointed dismissiveness followed by some salient points can go a long way...

by andrethegiant on Mon Mar 19th, 2007 at 08:24:35 AM EST
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God, that interview was infuriating. I couldn't get more than 5 minutes of it.

And people who were criticising Krugman for his body language don't know what they're talking about - he was doing just fine.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 19th, 2007 at 06:00:57 PM EST
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Or, as I once joked to you (quoting Lewis Black):

"Republicans are the party of bad ideas.  Democrats are the party of no ideas.  A Republican will say, 'I've got a really bad idea,' and the Democrats will respond, 'And we can make it worse!'"

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Mar 19th, 2007 at 09:46:21 AM EST
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