Blair's Last 100 Days | 30 comments (30 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 1)

Even £30k after taxes doesn't go very far in London, but you're, of course, quite right that there are people making far less. As we discussed last summer, I don't know how anyone lives on £17k or less. Bless their hearts, because they're clearly sharper than I.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Mar 21st, 2007 at 12:44:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 1)

Hunger sharpens wit, we say in Spain (el hambre aguza el ingenio)

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 21st, 2007 at 12:46:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 1)

Necessity is a mother...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Mar 21st, 2007 at 04:11:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (4.00 / 3)

And poor people are very environmentally friendly. Reuse is the best recycling.

You would not believe what those rich people throw away!

Or maybe you would, if you do not know how to survive on less then 17 000 £ a year...

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Mar 21st, 2007 at 07:41:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 1)

I asked the props man on the TV series to find me an old copying machine that still spat out paper, but the copy could be poor. I wanted some old model from the 80's. He searched for 2 days and then reported back that there weren't any - they are refurbished and then go to Africa to help small businesses, in some Finnish government aid system!

Great I said - we can live without it - better they are recycled. (I have a felling I'm going to end up with someone hiding inside the shell of an old copier and pushing papers out thru the slot ;-) )

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 01:41:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 1)

Yeah, that is great.

'Bout the copier problem, I would put a modern printer in the shell to push papers out. Though it would probably get a false paper jam at the wrong time. Or check with Estonia, I think Sweden sent over some in the early 90'ies.

I know you were probably just kidding about hiding someone, but I can not risk having to translate more from swedish so I am not letting you stuff someone in an old copier. Therefore I had to give you some technical solutions instead...

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 04:12:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 1)

I do live on a bit less than £17K and no, I don't work a service job -- or in a sector normally associated with low pay.

After being annoyed at the tax announcement and calculating how much worse off I'll be, I'm seeing it as an excellent indication that it's high time to leave for a better job!

'It depends on which research report you read,'says Hattie, 'and sorry about this, but I do tend to believe the ones that suit me.'

by JQL (deinikoi at gmail dot com) on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 02:02:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 1)

It's high time to get rid of New Labour!

Apparently the Labour party is delighted with this budget because it helps them against the Tories!

<snark>If you get a higher-paying job, the new budget will have succeeded! Hooray fot tax incentives!</snark>

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 02:22:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (4.00 / 3)

Alas, I am on the way to work and can't sit down to have a really thoughtful discussion. This evening...

In the strictest personal sense, yes, using this unwelcome change in circumstance to change employment is a 'success' of the policy. I'm sure there'll even be economists who'll say it'll force employers to pay more for talent, whatever that means.
However, I can only do so because it's an option for me. There are loads of people for whom this is not an option and frankly, the flattening of the tax code is one I find revolting.

The trouble with the political system currently is that we don't really have a Left and Right wing in the UK. More like two Right wings, each with a highly neo-liberal and authoritarian bent. It is time to get rid of New Labour -- it's been time to do so for years, over a variety of causes, but far more importantly, it's time to get rid of the thinking of New Labour. And that's a far harder disease to get rid of, unfortunately.

-------

'It depends on which research report you read,'says Hattie, 'and sorry about this, but I do tend to believe the ones that suit me.'

by JQL (deinikoi at gmail dot com) on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 02:59:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 1)

Well, clearly the LibDems are to the left of New Labour.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 04:34:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (4.00 / 4)

It's not entirely clear whether or not the Tories are.

This was a despicable Sheriff of Nottingham budget from Brown, bribing the middle classes and the City at the expense of the poor.

But it makes no sense politically, because the tax on gas guzzlers, will be seen as disproportionately important and a personal affront by those middle classes - even though in financial terms it's almost irrelevant.

There's something of the klutz about Brown. He seems to take a rather smug pride in his canny Scottish nous, but in fact he's politically naive and socially inept. He more or less understands neo-liberal financial theory, and knows how to give it a bit of a populist gloss. But I suspect he doesn't understand politics at all.

I wouldn't be surprised if he calls a snap election on the basis of the ineffable wonderfulness of this budget, and then gets his arse kicked out of the stadium by the Tories.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 05:47:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (4.00 / 2)

If Cameron's actions match his words, -- a big if, in my opinion, but that may be largely the result of Cameron using a ton of Bush's pseudo-centrist talking points from 2000 (which makes me suspicious) -- I think the Tories might well qualify as being more liberal than Labour, at this point. The parties seem to have come to an informal consensus on the government's total tax take at about 40% of national income. How they get to that 40% is the big question, followed by the question of how they spend it.

I quite agree on this budget being a Sheriff of Nottingham one. I have no problem with raising the threshold a bit on the top bracket, but raising taxes on people earning less than £16k -- I think £16k is the break-even point, if I remember the BBC report -- to pay for it is disgusting, and you're right in saying that it wreaks of vote-buying with the middle- and upper-class workers. Why not raise the threshold, cut the baseline, but add a fourth bracket at (say) £60-80k of 45-50%? If he wants to throw a bone to the middle class, great, but don't pull it out of the back of the poor.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 09:43:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 1)

Yes, but the LibDems are morons who'll never go anywhere, as always. Never in my (so far admittedly very short) life did I imagine I'd see a party more politically stupid than the American Dems, but somehow they pulled it off. Both the Tories and LibDems are playing the John Kerry game: "Labour sucks. But we won't change the basic structure. We'll just do it a bit better."

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 09:48:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 0)

I don't know how anyone lives on £17k or less.

Heh. I live on less than half of that, and I'm significantly better off than colleagues without diplomas.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 08:05:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 0)

There are certainly places in England where one can -- or, at least could prior to this budget -- live alright on much less than £17k. I did when I was in Notts. I think I was going on a bit more than half that amount, and I was in decent shape. (I'd have no retirement savings if I lived on it throughout my worklife, but it was enough to pay the bills and live in a decent area.) But Nottingham is, obviously, not London, in terms of prices.

How does Budapest stack up against London, as far as cost of living is concerned?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 09:29:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 0)

According to one 2006 list, around 44%, so that would put me squarely at your limit. But as I said, collagues without diplomas earn much less than I do.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 09:54:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 1)

According to HM Revenue & Customs, the UK median income before tax was 16 400 £ in 2004-2005

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 11:34:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 0)

Right, but when I say I don't see how anyone lives on less than £17k, I'm speaking of people in and around London. As I said, £17k isn't bad in a city like Nottingham. Let's assume two income earners and call it £35k, gross, for simplicity in 2006/7. Deduct the personal allowance, which is, I think, about £5-6,000, and you get 20% on £30k. So we're talking a bit under £30k in net income, right?

Not great, but not overwhelmingly terrible. In Nottingham, that would probably get you a terraced house in a half-decent neighborhood between Lenton and the City Centre. I don't have a great idea of what it gets you in London. I know that a decent flatshare in the East End can be had for about £400/month, -- a fair bit of room, close to the Underground, etc -- but that's my only point of reference, since I've never lived there and haven't done much research on the city. There may be stuff going for quite a bit less.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 12:14:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 0)

Er... £23k is not "a bit under £30k".

The problem is the single person making £15k. They get to keep £12k so they have £1000 left after taxes. A studio flat in London will cost at least £500/mo. Add council tax, utilities, a monthly travelcard for at least £100/mo, food and clothing, and things start to get a little tight.

A couple sharing a 1 bedroom flat with two incomes are clearly much better off.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 12:22:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 0)

A bit under £30k: £35k - £5k = £30k. £30k x .8 = £24k. Add the allowance to get about £29k. Or is the fact that I'm not an accountant showing?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 12:27:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (4.00 / 2)

No, you're right. I think it's the fact I'm a mathematician that is showing. ;-)

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 01:31:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 0)

I'm not sure, but I think it's safe to say that we'd make a horrible accounting partnership. ;)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Mar 23rd, 2007 at 09:07:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blair's Last 100 Days (none / 0)

It is, however, important to remember the erosion at PPP, as Mig has pointed out on numerous occasions. A £30k combined income for a couple gets you more in America than it does in Britain, generally.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 at 12:24:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Blair's Last 100 Days | 30 comments (30 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Top Diaries

What's Next, After the Slam?

Shock Election Loss Rutte IV In Senate Race

Honduras Establishes Close Ties with China

A Return to Normalcy?

A Grand Slam for Ireland?

NI Protocol: It's all over bar the shouting?

The Windsor Framework

March 2023

Recent Diaries

Neo-Nazi Marches Across Europe

Fascism Unites America, Israel and EU Neo-Nazis

What's Next, After the Slam?

Settler Extremism Blessed by Jerusalem Leaders

US Interference In Lebanon-Syria-Ira
q

City Agriculture - March 17, 2023

Shock Election Loss Rutte IV In Senate Race

Stalemate Endures, Pessimism Grows, Deaths Mount

Honduras Establishes Close Ties with China

A Grand Slam for Ireland?

Living In Spain and Social-Democracy

USA Censorship Act to Kill Disinformation

Flying Fortresses and Nuclear Threat

Universal Criticism Asylum Threshold EU Fortress

China Trade and Relations

SBU As a Terror Network

A Return to Normalcy?

Georgia and Foreign Agents or Spy Law

Nord Stream Blasts Timeline of Denial

Crimea As Endgame Before Going M.A.D.

Occasional Series