Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
mmm, nice and chewy, ta kc.

stockholm syndrome fascinates me, as does masochism.

as children we figure out on a gut level who our captors are, and how to please them. if they run naked around a maypole before dinner, we soon see the advantages of aping this behaviour, life is so much more peaceful when one doesn't rebel against the status quo...

the problems arise when other, potentially conflicting myths start to exert their attractions.

on a gut level, perhaps we are shifting allegiances to peers, who are going to be around, influencing our survival, after or parents are dead and gone, becoming the 'deciders' of much of our destinies, our new 'captors', if you will.

in short, i believe the friction between the first 'safe ' narratives, into which we are born, and the cultural memes that encourage us to wonder and question if perhaps the model to which we unthinkingly adhere is really more akin to 'reality' than the exciting new models our parents are clueless about, (but which haven't yet been time-tested).

for my generation, the advent of psychotropic agents that were a quantum leap beyond the recreational 'drugs of choice' for my parents' martini generation, is a perfect example of this dichotomy, but there are many.

how our parents handle our 'deviance', and in turn how we handle THAT, are the two principle factors in how we navigate adolescence, which of course determines so much of what we call 'character' or 'personality', ie the traits that are most rooted in our psychological make-up at the most crucial formative stages, becoming the most embedded and difficult to modify.

i prefer the word 'modulate' actually, as modify is a bit utilitarian for the delicate 'wetwork' involved.

as for crackers and rocks, when was the first apprehension that all was not what it seemed?

i remember the sense of betrayal when, even emptying out the whole brand new cereal box on the table to find him, the little plastic toy promised on the box, and he WASN'T THERE!!!

around 4 or 5 i guess.

natch, as soon as the wool starts to shift from the optics, the road to all-out scepticism is swift and short, as there is little so dignity-stripping as failing to follow the 'right' ideas.

my dad being an advertising man certainly helped me look at the meta around trust, belief and gullibility early and often.

it was odd to learn that other families didn't gather round the boobtoob to watch the new 'cheezwhiz' commercial, for example.

a useful lesson in the proclivity for lies that is such a feature of the 'free marketista' ideology, and how many of us grown adults are still sifting through the cornflakes in search of the 'satisfaction' promised on the box, and still beating ourselves up for having believed it.

see where masochism fits in?

and to remedy the pain from that, we are encouraged to collaborate in snaring others into the same mire, as misery loves company, and why should someone else go free, when being enslaved is the right and proper survival strategy?

i mean. we're all in this together, sink or swim, right?


sure buddy....now please sign here....

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Mar 7th, 2007 at 06:15:21 PM EST
I love always love your deconstructions of present subtle pereceptions... or even discourses.

Besides parents and peers there is what some people call inmate mythologies. Structures of mind so ingrained that the are needed in language and minimal social awareness whcih can be different form culture to culture (or language to language)

These kind of mythological structures are called by me fundamental mythologies in the sense that you can not think they are wrong..even when you are shown others.

In this sesne most of the marketista , and drugs, and masochistic is not fundamental (it is of course very relevant, very, absolutely but I can certainly beleive they are wrong).

So about your point about first explnations and more complex memes about asking "ourselves" that appear later on in our culture.. I could not agree more about the description. But I doubt you can really change the truly fundamental ones.

I really can not stop thinking myself as myself.. there is no way back...as much as I know that other people never thougth that way..and understand that the "self" myth is one extreme myth among others.. I can not stop thinking it about as "ture".. not in the sense of "fact".. but I feel it that way..as much as I would like to quit thinking that way.

You and willchurch seem to imply that you can really modify or even change these basics , basic western urban myths... through mediation, or experiences, and the help of other memes and other ideas.... I am just not sure..

I stress, not sure.. which means it could be completely true... it is just that I have not experienced myself in the ones I think as very deep myths. On the other hand, it is certainly possible that I ahve modified some myths without me being aware of the fact.. some myths that other people find obvious and obviously true..and that for me they are no longer true in an absolute sense of the word.

So I really do not know...

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Mar 7th, 2007 at 07:03:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks, kc, i appreciate it.

i don't know either.....

because the farther i go into looking for the 'original kernel', inside myself, there are just onion layers, one after the other.

i sometimes get the feeling i am protected by some invisible 'governor' that adjusts the flow of novelty, so as not to become overwhelmed...

so there is a feeling of not being able to open the sluice gates completely, even if one wanted to.

just enough to irrigate...

the onions...

i know i'm tired by how many meta4's i mix!

fantastic reply, btw, though i'm still puzzling over whether you meant 'innate' or 'inmate' in your second graph-

works either way, a bit hit-or-myth, huh?

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Mar 7th, 2007 at 07:39:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I love the original kernel stuff!!!.. that was a real good one.. I felt like if you were thinking in my head (as a bororo would say).. Love it.. original kernel.. a linux one I hope :)

I meant innate.. but actually is not the right word.. because it is cultary innate.. not brain-innate that comes from birth... :)

Your wording is the right actually.. some kind of basic cultural kernel.. Like notions of self and/or community,  sapce and boudnary structures. Cateogrization structures and vertical or horizontal structures/hierarchies. Patriarchal, Matriarchal, bilineal ... family units... this kind of stuff... All of it..

And there are always onion rings about these things..and they are there.. and even when you know they are there youc an not avoid thinking in this terms.. they are still your  onions even if you would like  to change some of them for garlic!!! Geeee

Love it.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Mar 7th, 2007 at 07:48:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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