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  1.  Very good point.

  2.  Have their been any diaries on the Bell Curve (which I have not read)?  I did a quick search, and found this interesting exchange:

technolopolitical: With respect to relative poverty within a society, one would expect social sorting processes to aggregate disfunctional people, and that for many disfunctional people, low earnings are just one aspect of a syndrome. Causality between poverty and disfunction obviously runs both ways. (I emphasise that this is a statement about statistical patterns, not a generalisation that applies to everyone in a group.)

Writing this suggests a hypothesis to me, which is that societies that are more meritocratic tend to have a greater incidence of social pathologies among members of their low-income quintiles. This seems testable.

redstar: Writing this suggests a hypothesis to me, which is that societies that are more meritocratic tend to have a greater incidence of social pathologies among members of their low-income quintiles. This seems testable.

I'd be careful with this if I were you, lest the bona fides of (presumably anti-social) pathologies be determined by the dominant class(es) in said societies. Tyranny of the majority and all that...

afew: There's indeed a well-known work that can be seen in the light you suggest, The Bell Curve.

And it's actually encouraging to see that their spin is pathetic.

Maybe so.  But it still works.  People take heart in it, and find justification of their mindsets in it.  That is why I found this piece so scary, moreso because I felt out of my depth trying to "deconstruct" to the person who forwarded it to me.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco on Wed Jul 11th, 2007 at 05:46:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't remember any diaries on The Bell Curve. If I had time I'd write on it (but it's a long work presenting a lot of tendentious statistics - in particular, suggesting causality after establishing correlation).

You're right that Lindsey's arguments encourage those whose minds are already set in that direction, and it's particularly difficult to change the mindset of those who believe in a level playing field and a perfect meritocracy - that is, those who believe this actually operates (in America, naturally), who don't even see it as a desirable future state. When I said "pathetic", I didn't mean "has no appeal". On the contrary - the call on subjective impressions rather than what Lindsey calls "statistical squid ink" shows careful attention to psychology and the emotions, this guy is a genuine propagandist.

But when they are saying: "you can make statistics say anything", or, "statistics obfuscate the issues", then that means the statistics are not on their side. And when their argument about the concentration of wealth at the top (a point they'd appear to be conceding) is an old Victorian view based on the Protestant work ethic, then they're not coming up with anything new. Hence my feeling that this is a defensive piece of writing.

Sorry I have no ready-made talking points for your discussion with the person who sent you this. If I have time, I'll try to deconstruct the article - or if anyone else wants to have a go?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jul 12th, 2007 at 11:45:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe one could deconstruct it by questioning whether the causation is in the direction the article proposes, or the opposite one (poverty causes poor child-rearing, therefore inequality damages the future human capital of society as a whole) and then moving on to correlation doesn't imply causation.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 12th, 2007 at 11:49:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Absolutely. There are no doubt behaviours that are more likely to produce socio-economic "success" than others. The question is why these behaviours are reproduced.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jul 12th, 2007 at 02:20:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The unsuccessful ones, that is.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jul 12th, 2007 at 02:23:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In the absence of (sometimes quite drastic) corrective action, complex systems reinforce differences. This is quite different from the relaxation to equilibrium and homogeneity that one observes in simple systems.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 12th, 2007 at 06:27:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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