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The CIA secret prisons exist in Europe and those imprisoned there were likely tortured.

You should say existed. The prisons were closed and moved to Africa as soon as the story broke in the press nearly 2 years ago.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 02:14:56 AM EST
Thanks.
by Magnifico on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 02:16:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I found a source.

Jurist: Terror suspects moved from CIA prisons in Europe to North Africa: report (December 06, 2005)

The US held eleven captured al Qaeda suspects at two secret CIA prisons in Eastern Europe until media reports exposing the existence of the prisons shut down the facilities last month, ABC News reported Monday. The prisoners were then hastily relocated to a CIA facility in North Africa prior to the arrival of US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in Europe.
Lots of links to primary media sources in there.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 02:51:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
North Africa means Egypt, I'd guess?
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 05:13:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Could be Tunisia.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 05:35:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nobody knows for sure, and North Africa is not exactly Transparency City, so it's been a lot harder for investigators to track them down.  Planespotting gets you thrown in jail as a spy around here.  The possibilities are Egypt, Tunisia and Morocco, and to a lesser extent Algeria, but I tend to think that one's unlikely for a variety of reasons.

There has also been speculation about Jordan, but there's a little less real estate to work with there, so it'd be harder to hide.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 05:58:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Morocco is also a possibility. It is more "democratic" so it has "preferred non-NATO ally" status with the US, and is more likely to cooperate with the US.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 07:13:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Morocco also has a history of building secret prisons of its own, and a lot of remote territory (like Egypt) where a black site could be hidden away from prying eyes.

Egypt, however, is also flat enough in most places that they could have an airstrip in the remote location.  The Egyptian interrogation sites normally mentioned in news articles are known Egyptian intelligence facilities right in Cairo, but in those places the detainees would be in the custody of Egyptian authorities, not the CIA.  There are rumors and speculations about where a black prison might be located here, but no hard evidence that I'm aware of.

A few articles have metioned Libya as a possibility as well, but I also find that unlikely, although not for the reasons you'd probably expect.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 07:26:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
According to Mail and Guardian. The paper version also had reports on refugees from Somalia gone missing when crossing the border to Kenya and held by other people than the Ethiopian occupational force. It hinted at American agents.
by Nomad on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 08:12:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, that's a very good point.  What's happening in Ethiopia (and Somalia) is very troubling.

And the US public seems to be largely unaware of it, which is even more troubling.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 01:47:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, and here's one for the conspiracy theorists:  The author of that story is the AP reporter who was kicked out of Ethiopia last year, and then killed in a plane crash in Cameroon last month.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 01:52:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's terrible.

:<

This dismays and upsets me, I don't know what else to say.

by Nomad on Sat Jun 9th, 2007 at 12:17:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah.  I know.  I don't mean to make light of it, either.  It's terribly sad.

He had a wife and two small kids.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sat Jun 9th, 2007 at 12:41:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The authors of "Off the Record" acknowledge that all 39 detainees may not still be in U.S. custody, and some may have been transferred to the control of other countries. One such country is Libya, which now plays a bigger role in U.S. counterterrorism operations than was previously known.



 - from Human rights groups say there are over 39 'ghost detainees', McClatchy Newspapers, June 7, 2007.
by corncam on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 12:10:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the US has also used Syria for extraordinary renditions, while at the same time making the usual noises about democracy and Lebanon and sponsorship of terrorism.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 12:21:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I just want to make sure everyone's aware that extraordinary renditions and CIA black sites are two different things...?  I don't doubt that prisoners have been rendered to Libya, but I do doubt that the CIA is running its own prison facility there.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 01:40:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I heard on NPR yesterday that there were 14 prisoners held by the CIA and they were all moved to Guantanamo and they remain there.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 03:49:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What were they citing as their source on that claim?
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 04:08:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Honestly, I can't answer that question.  I got in during the middle of the interview.  I'll try to do some research and let you know.   It was a discussion of the extraordinary rendition program.  

Interestingly, the interview just before that one was of Tony L. The former military interrogator that you wrote about day before yesterday, I believe.  He sounded very self-righteous to me in discussing his coauthored book on torture in Iraq.  He claimed to have reported his involvement in torturing prisoners several times to military authorities (CID twice) and they took no action.  I suppose I believe him on that one.  He finally got the US Navy to begin an investigation but only 2 years after his first report.  An Iraq veteran called in and asked if he had seen any cases of torture attributed to the insurgency as he (the caller) had seen during rescues of Iraqi civilians from insurgents.  Tony replied that he had seen cases where persons had obviously been tortued, but rather than say they could have been victims of the insurgency, he instead said they were just as likely victims of torture by the US Marines. He didn't explain his reason for making that statement and there was no followup.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 04:39:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Stormy, I've scoured the NPR web site for this story but haven't been able to locate it.  As I stated, I tuned in to the radio interview sort of in the middle but near the end and didn't hear the name of the interviewee.  It may be that the person I cite was referring to the 11 to 14 so called "high value" prisoners at Guantanamo and not to others that were captured as part of the extraordinary rendition program.  By the way, I highly recommend the NPR web site for good reporting on such subjects. if you are not already familiar with it the URL is www.npr.org  

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Mon Jun 11th, 2007 at 05:02:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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