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For me, both come under the heading of 'perceptions'. I do not 'believe' that you can change the world without understanding people's perceptions of that world. It really doesn't matter whether those perceptions are 'wrong' or 'right', they need to be understood in the way that they influence behaviour.
I think astrology is poppycock, but the existence of it is fascinating, just as the existence of all superstition is fascinating. These existences are FACTS.
As you are well aware, a certain amount of social cohesion is needed to drive ET. You are also aware that it takes a tricky balancing act between hierarchy and self-organization to produce content. You can't be me, I'm taken
You think astrology is poppycock (so do I) but that the existence of interest/belief in it is a significant fact (so do I).
The question is how much significance does it have? Should we spend time discussing it here? How much time, and in what way? What light will it throw on what? What effect will it have on ET's overall image?
(BTW, your proposed Jeromic facts-belief dichotomy seems to apply to you too, since you judge astrology "poppycock". How do you reach that conclusion without some category of discernible "facts"? To a true postmodern relativist, nothing is poppycock. Or everything is. Or whatever... ;))
personally, that is an issue I could have lived without knowing anything about
Focus, priorities and social cohesion. You can't be me, I'm taken
But I certainly was NOT saying that astrology discussion should be banned at ET. I was saying it should be discussed in the context of perceptions.
However I think J is over-reacting to an Open Thread; a section of the site that functions for the social cohesiveness of ET. And also reinforcing the impression that ET is 'emotionally challenged' or, in other words, not in touch with its feminine side ;-) You can't be me, I'm taken
BTW Your comment links didn't work for me You can't be me, I'm taken
Social cohesion, I quite agree. I'm not against the discussion here, I joined in. Because I suppose it's good for a laugh, though it's 100% piffle.
For those who take it seriously, I think there are a lot of places on Internet. Once again, what is its value as a serious or regular topic for ET?
If anyone had called the subprime credit debacle "piffle", they would have been troll rated.
Let's stay civil please.
I haven't lacked civility towards you (or any other user), mmmm. You, however, say I'm "paternalistic" and that I "decide for everyone what is good for ET". Which is not civil, and is false. I'm not deciding for everyone. Neither, by the way, do you speak for everyone.
Because I suppose it's good for a laugh, though it's 100% piffle.
I don't know if I'm misreading how you meant this, but from the way that's written, it looks like you joined in to ridicule it.
Look, afew, I will never, ever tell you to believe in astrology, nor will I tell you to stop personally thinking of it as piffle. But the open threads, and even some diaries, have extolled the virtues of such topics as alcohol, drugs, ayurveda, kittens, road trips, Leicester, cars, gardens, and Harry Potter, and I can guarantee you that anyone reading that sentence recoiled internally and thought, "But there's nothing wrong with that topic!"
That's my point; as annoying as astrology is to you, it's not annoying to others, and a topic that you like to discuss might annoy others (I rejoice in kittens, but there's probably at least one ETer who can't stand the sight of them). So please realize that it's somewhat unrealistic to try to prevent most topics from being discussed, especially by deciding if they fall in the realm of science. I'm trying to be careful how I phrase that because I know you're pretty much just expressing an opinion, but others are going to have their opinions too.
I don't know if I'm being clear or just confusing the situation more, but mmmm has a good point with the drug diaries and threads. Not everyone here is thrilled with those, I'm certainly not. But I've stayed out of them for the most part (I had like one or two posts regarding lung problems) because I know if I tried to stop them there'd be hell to pay. No one would stand for my ridiculing drug use or telling people to stop talking about it. So I'm amazed that astrology elicits the response it does (you've been relatively calm, but I've gotten a couple of rather nasty replies in earlier diaries).
If I'd thought we shouldn't be talking about it in an open thread, I'd have said so much sooner. Of course there are heaps of topics that are discussed in OTs, and I can't think of an occasion when I have spoken against any of them.
But this spat today began when I discussed with Sven his response to Jerome. I think ET has other priorities than discussing astrology. That's an overall view, not a criticism of this particular open thread.
BTW, I think you can perfectly well argue that drug use shouldn't be discussed here (in a manner that "extols its virtues", as you say). You might find yourself supported in surprising quarters.
Thanks for your thoughtful comment.
Science is always in flux. It is often wrong. It is always being improved. It is the work of scientists to improve our understanding.
Poetry is not science. You can't be me, I'm taken
What effect will it have on ET's overall image?
We've got an open thread with pictures of stilletto races and crop circles, and you think astrology is the only thing that's gonna make people question our reputation?
as for your question, the answer is no. I doubt I will ever pick a fight with Bob or Fran.
it's very paternalistic to be cherry picking topics like this and deciding which are ok and which are "not good for our reputation"
a very good way to hurt people's feelings and lose contributors
I also apologize for the comments about the discussion about drugs. If anyone wants to talk about that, I am not the arbiter of good taste, and it's as valid as anything I have to say. I was lashing out and that's not right.
men shaving their privates on the other hand ....
I lkove it, when people love to disagree - but I think we had enough. In the end we are just a big ET family! and I guess there are disagreements in every family.
And I hope your statement about not picking a fight with me holds true, mmmmm. :-)
Oh, and lychee this comment is not for you personally, I think it just fits in well in this place. :-)
you would never judge people that way either.
I hope you didn't think the comment about stilletto races was directed at you, either-- I was just using it as an example.
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