Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
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thanks  - I love birthdays, mine and other people's and I think one should enjoy each one of them to the utmost of one's abilities
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:14:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tell us when it is and we will all eat cake in celebration.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:47:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm all for eating cake.  My bd is on Friday, so make sure you visit your pâtisserie before then, and it must be chocolate!  :-)
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:57:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Right that's written on my calendar

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:03:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So now you know my bd, who else will come forward with theirs?

Fran must be a Taurus
Ceeb I think is a Leo
LEP an Aquarius
Jerome an Aries
Helen a Gemini, no a Cancer
and metavision a Capricorn

am I right?

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:20:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Helen a Gemini, no a Cancer

Some might think my opinions are cancerous, but I'm really just a two faced b*stard, aka gemini.

Interestingly, Mars is in Pisces. the guy who did my chart told me I was transgendered before I'd even fully admitted it to myself.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:25:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm afraid I'm a Saggy hairy ass

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:25:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
depilation?
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:37:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
fortunately the four hoves allow us to avoid anything like that.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:41:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not about mine.  What characteristics of Capricorn do I have?

Actually, I´m a wabbit.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:26:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nope no Taurus, but another earthsign - Capricorn
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:27:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fran, I thought you were Taurus because you like to help others and are earthy

Ceebs, a Leo because you like cats, but I wasn't far off - Sadge is a fire sign too

Helen, I said Gemini because you are very cerebral, but then said Cancer because you seem to be home-centered as well

metavision, also earthy  

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:32:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cerebral ?? Me ?? Shurely shome mishtake ? Compared to the rocket-scientists here I'm one of the site's dimwits

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:46:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
really
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You won't get a 4 from me for putting yourself down.  Non-scientists have a lot to offer, you know?

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:01:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I do have a science degree, but that notwithstanding, there's a lot of seriously bright people here, scientist or no. So in comparison I don't really qualify for cerebral.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:17:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
puhleasssse...
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:18:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree with metavision, I would even want to go a step further and would like to troll-rate you for putting down someone I consider very smart, bright and interesting. So be ware what you say and write. :-)
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:59:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry. I have confidence issues, always have done.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:17:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well, get over it and learn to accept a compliment by saying "thank you" <said in stern voice>
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:22:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
we're waiting ....
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:53:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
{tiny voice} thank you.

But it's actually very hard for me to do that gracefully. No practice

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:14:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well that wasn't so hard now was it?

next step is to believe it.

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:18:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
next step is to believe it.

Sorry, strictly reality-based

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:37:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
According to an article I read in Psychology Today, pessimists are more realistic, being able to predict the outcome of certain projects more accurately.  Optimists are often wrong, but they don't care and they are much happier.

Which would you rather be:  right or happy?

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:42:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm a cynic: Being proved right gives me savage joy.

Beyond that; it's an easy question with a complicated answer. Happiness right now would be being allowed to be what I am and not be criticised for what I'm not.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:04:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ok.
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:10:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, I just re-read that. It was a comment about real life, not anyone here.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:18:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK.  I'm not going to disparage anyone here, for sure not the width of your laptop screen, nor the voluptousnessigkeit of of anyone's dual dual drives.  I won't even comment on people's birth signs, because, well, we all can't be born horse mix-breeds with on target arrows.

But this is grin ridiculous.  I came to ET to find intelligent discussion based on the left, i.e. humane, side of the spectrum.  Why should i be forced to squint my eyes way off to the right of the screen to discern the topical mode of the astrologers in residence?

Let's all move the comments just a bit over to the left side of the screen, or at least we could limit our long, ponderous, even deciduous comments to a fraction of the space necessary to... i mean, if you have to post on the right, why not limit your comments to just one word.

In fact, right now i'm thinking of a word which best describes this comment.  And that word encompasses the history of drinking in Russia, where the daily gruel of the peasants was turned into the elixir of making peasant life pleasant life... Wodka!  I don't know what sign wodka was born under, but it probably wasn't one of the Twelve.  Hey, did you hear the one about Lenin's trippple distilled Tomb?

As long as we're this far out on the right side of the screen, did anyone see the conservative think tank blog which made the case that amurka should nuke Iraq and repopulate it with amurkans, like Ceasar did with France, and then Bush should emulate Ceasar and bring stability by ending the unworkable democracy and setting himself up as long-term Regent?  You've probably noticed that i didn't link to the blog, because i'm concerned for the mental health of the ET community, but it exists, and you can get there from Crooks and Liars.

As a lurker, perhaps i've overstepped my bounds treading so far on the right side of this Tribune, but i really did wish to understand the limits of the software, wondering just how far to the right this blog can be pushed.  But now that i think of it, that strikes me as a non-productivist idea, leaving me wishing i'd thought of a great one word comment for the right side of the screen.

Wodka!

(The preceeding was an official test of software limits, and should not be disguised or interpreted as reflecting the views of of the aformentioned commenter, whose system may well have been hijacked by russian hackers, and should not be deemed of any major importance in the context of global economic meltdown.)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin

by Crazy Horse on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 06:26:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By the way, i'm not a girl, and have never ("to my recollection" -- Alberto Gonzales) worn high heels, but i can't help but thinking that i'd run a hundred meters in the aforementioned stilletos if i had the chance of collecting 10,000 of them Euro thingies.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 06:36:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jeebus, the software still works!  Should I go have a cigarette, the very symbol of why i moved to so-called Europe!  You don't have to answer, as we don't want to break the margins.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 06:38:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Though
I
do
wonder
what
Jerome
is
doing
on
the
left
side
of
Africa.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 06:40:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No practice? What were you doing in your previous life?
by Bernard on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:21:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Helen, how can you be a diva with an attitude like that? hmmm?
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:28:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dunno. Am I supposed to be a diva then ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:41:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
every woman is a diva at least once in her life.

have you had your diva moment yet?  

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:44:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good grief, I'm barely started. Only been doing it for 3 or 4 years. In terms of adjusting I'm barely 17.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:00:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
  ;-)
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:04:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What was I doing ? I was being male. It hurt and was shitty

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:40:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hope you're enjoying your new life then.
by Bernard on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:52:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh tis infinitely better than before, but is a strangely bittersweet experience.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:58:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well, that's where chocolate comes in...
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:04:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fellow Virgo here.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:45:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
oh I wouldn't have guessed.  I would have said Sadge actually.
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:48:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm a quintessential virgo, actually.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:27:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought Sadge because of the love of foreign countries and poetry
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:33:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You may be seeing the rising sign/ascendant. That sign is typically your outer "mask" or how others see/treat you. It's also possible for a person to have so many planets in a particular sign that they take on characteristics of that sign, even if their sun and ascendant aren't in it.
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:08:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I agree with you - it is very difficult to just isolate the sunsign.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:12:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you know much about Vedic astrology Fran?

I saw a google video about the Nazis and the occult and it said that Himmler's astrologer had correctly predicted an attempt on Hitler's life on July 20 1944 and Hitler's death in April 1945.  I saw his charts and it's all Vedic astrology, and each sign's degree is also subdivided into signs -Vedic astrology only uses some of the planets,  so it works out

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:26:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know about Vedic Astrology, not sure if I could say I know much. They are more focused on the sign of the moon and the acendant, however, also use the sunsigns. In addition they have 27 moonsigns. Further, one of the main differences is that they use the sideral zodiac instead of the tropical one used in western astrology.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:31:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Vedic has a reputation for making very accurate specific predictions. How much this has to do with the use of sidereal vs. tropical I don't know. Heavier emphasis on the ascendant may play a role, but I'm speculating here based on personal experience with mine-- Western astrological influences affecting my rising sign tend to affect me more than those affecting my sun sign, and I can imagine Vedic knows something about this us westerners don't. ^-^
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:00:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No one's guessed my sun sign, but they usually seem to get my rising sign (which they assume is my sun sign, of course).
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:06:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
okay, let me try and think here.  I am not too familiar with your comments, but I would guess with your love of esoterica, that you would be a Scorpio
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:10:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, but you are closer than most people, in more ways than one.

I'm a Sadge, born November 24. So:

  1. Close to the Scorpio/Sadge cusp, which means I do have some Scorpio traits

  2. Jupiter is in Scorpio in my birth chart-- big planet, planet of luck, etc. A lot of "advice" for Scorpios tends to work for me too. (There's one astrologer whose gimmick is to look at the Jupiter sign and act like that sign, and I have to admit, that's really put a few more pieces in place in my life, though I'm willing to admit that power of suggestion may play a role.... Whichever, it's worked so far)
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:22:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sadge would have been my second guess.

I also have Jupiter in Scorpio, at 24 deg, Ascendant in Scorpio at 29.5 deg, so first house is Sadge and Jupiter playing a big role because it is conjunct to my ascendant and ruler of my first house

I always thought that is why I was tall.

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:25:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You lost me a bit. The ascendant is in the sign on the first house cusp, so if your ascendant is Scorpio, your first house would be Scorpio. Or am I totally misinterpreting what you wrote? I know houses can contain more than one sign, so do you mean the majority of your first house is in Sadge, while the very beginning where your ascendant is, is in Scorpio?

I'm still learning the house systems and am thus easily confused.

by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:54:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
because I am at 29.5 deg Scorpio,  my first house is about half a degree of Scorpio and 29 degrees of Sag, to simplify it.  
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:58:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Okay, I think I get it. Thanks.
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:03:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So although you appear to be a bastard and a sex maniac on the surface underneath your laid back? ;-)

(5 days before me so I'm entirely similar)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:40:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you share a bd with Jacques Chirac?  oh, you poor man.
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:45:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's ok, I don't invite him to my party.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:55:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Could be worse. According to Wikipedia, I share a birthday with Ted Bundy.
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:13:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, you're forgetting about my ascendant. It's underneath that I'm a complete bitch. ;)

Unfortunately my ascendant appears to rule my sex life and it's waaay far away from "maniac."

by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:00:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
oh, sorry to hear it.   ;-)
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:06:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In sharing a house with some Hippies 15 years ago, who were so new age  as to be untrue, A friend of mine and I spent an evening creating the one word description Horroscope. to instantly (And just as accurately as regular horroscopes) sum up everyone we met. I can remeber a few of them

Sagitarius came out as The one true perfect star sign (Guess the star sign of the originators) ;-)
Scorpios were Bastards
Pisces were Drunks and drug adicts
and Virgos came out as NEVER trust a Virgo


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:14:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
;)

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:23:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I find that too.
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:19:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I hope you announce it so we can drink and sing to you, poemless.  

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:58:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
can anyone tell me if women still get serenaded in Spain by their husbands, boyfriends or lovers?

I had an official serenade once when I was in Colombia and it was wonderful.  I recommend it to everyone.  

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:17:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
this is a great idea for a small business.  minimal investment, gives unemployed musicians work and gets a lot of free PR
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:59:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, Izzy was just remarking to me that we should become freelance love-letter writers.  lol.  Yes, we should not underestimate the market for sappy romanticism, or what people will be willing to do for money. :)

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:26:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
in Latin America, husbands get up in the middle of the night to go join the band they hired to serenade their wife.  the husband usually sings along with the band.  

the serenading is done in the middle of the night, and wakes up the whole neighbourhood, but nobody complains as soon as  they realize it's a serenade.

cheap romanticism?  maybe.  but I liked it.  and so did my ex, and the band, and the whole neighbourhood who listened in.  

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:40:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And once one husband/boyfriend in a neighbourhood has done it, the rest get told "you never do anything like that for me" forcing a few more to dip into their pockets, the more that do it, the heavier the pressure on the rest.

Genius marketing. ;-)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:53:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I like the earthy part if it means, grounded, mature, responsible, credible, aware, fun, wonderful...

Before I say it, what would those that saw me in Paris guess I am?

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:46:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
of course that is what I mean ;-)
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:48:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know enough about it to guess about anybody. So, you'll just have to tell

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:18:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
we're waiting....
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:21:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
<tapping fingers>
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:43:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
<humming>
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:01:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would guess that you're a terrific... oh never mind.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:05:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK, ok, Feb. 22.  The best sign in the universe, right?  So was George Washington...

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:12:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Birthday Horoscopes for 02/22

The person born on this day deals with the world as a revolutionary in most chart configurations. This is to the credit of Uranus, the ruling planet for this day. The conflict between this planet and Neptune, the ruling planet for Pisces has an effect that might be considered by the people that know this person as being off-center and cynical. After all this nit picking of the person born on this day the attributes that stand out the most is is their true desire to be giving and having genuine concern for the fate of all mankind.

www.birthscopes.com

go to the bottom of the page and select the month you were born in

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:20:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Talking astrology is a bannable offense on ET, just so you know.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:01:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
we're taking advantage of Migeru's absence to discuss the undiscussable
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:05:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I'm back to quote Wittgestein at you: Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 27th, 2007 at 07:34:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You can´t get us! na na nannnannanna

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:08:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and shouldn't you be getting yourself depilated?
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:27:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Shouldn't you stop typing so she can sleep?

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:29:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm doing short comments really slowly...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:37:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You know, for a subject that's "bannable," it sure is generating a lot of comments.

Uh-oh. You're outnumbered, Jerome. =D

by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:05:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All I can do is express my personal unhappiness at seeing that topic discussed with such earnestness here on ET, and make it clear for the next time that discussing it after I've made that clear will be seen by me as an obvious ploy with the sole intent of annoying me.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 01:17:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Seems to me you never have seen the topic been discussed in earnestness. This here is lighthearted bantering about the topic. :-) I have to friends who are 'serious' Astrologers, so I know.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 01:24:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That figures.

As an economist and investment banker you obviously prefer numerology over astrology.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 02:05:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The greatest difference between us J, is your compartmentalization of 'facts' and 'beliefs'.

For me, both come under the heading of 'perceptions'. I do not 'believe' that you can change the world without understanding people's perceptions of that world. It really doesn't matter whether those perceptions are 'wrong' or 'right', they need to be understood in the way that they influence behaviour.

I think astrology is poppycock, but the existence of it is fascinating, just as the existence of all superstition is fascinating. These existences are FACTS.

As you are well aware, a certain amount of social cohesion is needed to drive ET. You are also aware that it takes a tricky balancing act between hierarchy and self-organization to produce content.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 03:44:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd do a diary on irrationality if I had the time. We might find some useful insights into financial markets, religions, greed, unsustainability, alcoholism and a million other vital areas of misunderstandings.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 03:59:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Once again, Sven: focus and priorities.

You think astrology is poppycock (so do I) but that the existence of interest/belief in it is a significant fact (so do I).

The question is how much significance does it have? Should we spend time discussing it here? How much time, and in what way? What light will it throw on what? What effect will it have on ET's overall image?

(BTW, your proposed Jeromic facts-belief dichotomy seems to apply to you too, since you judge astrology "poppycock". How do you reach that conclusion without some category of discernible "facts"? To a true postmodern relativist, nothing is poppycock. Or everything is. Or whatever... ;))

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 04:40:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
well, what effect will discussing if men shave their bodies have on ET's reputation?

personally, that is an issue I could have lived without knowing anything about

by zoe on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 04:45:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Poppycock as a science, not as a belief.

Focus, priorities and social cohesion.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 04:49:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
yes, it's much better to go on and discuss the beneficial and wonderfully mind altering effects of illicit drugs all night than talking about astrology just the one time.  The former won't affect ET's reputation will it, but the second will condemn ET in the eyes of the intellectual snobs.  Getting stoned is okay with them, even worthy of praise, but not talking about astrology.
by zoe on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 04:54:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The composition and effects of drugs can be scientifically examined and studied, and the opioidergic and neurotransmission systems can be demonstrated universally. Whether they are beneficial to the individual and/or society, is a matter of discussion.

But I certainly was NOT saying that astrology discussion should be banned at ET. I was saying it should be discussed in the context of perceptions.

However I think J is over-reacting to an Open Thread; a section of the site that functions for the social cohesiveness of ET. And also reinforcing the impression that ET is 'emotionally challenged' or, in other words, not in touch with its feminine side ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 09:45:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
However I think J is over-reacting to an Open Thread
Is he really, though? I took both of his comments (1, 2) as rather tongue in cheek. A kind of: "I don't believe in any of this stuff and can't see why anyone would discuss it seriously, but whatever..."
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 10:38:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe so - but J's first comment on Damned didn't appear that way to me. Perhaps he will clarify?

BTW Your comment links didn't work for me

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 10:50:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So what is "science"?

Social cohesion, I quite agree. I'm not against the discussion here, I joined in. Because I suppose it's good for a laugh, though it's 100% piffle.

For those who take it seriously, I think there are a lot of places on Internet. Once again, what is its value as a serious or regular topic for ET?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:36:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
you're being very paternalistic in deciding for everyone what is good enough for ET.

If anyone had called the subprime credit debacle "piffle", they would have been troll rated.

Let's stay civil please.

by zoe on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:42:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think astrology is piffle. If someone wanted to say: the subprime crisis is piffle, I cannot imagine why they would be troll-rated.

I haven't lacked civility towards you (or any other user), mmmm. You, however, say I'm "paternalistic" and that I "decide for everyone what is good for ET". Which is not civil, and is false. I'm not deciding for everyone. Neither, by the way, do you speak for everyone.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:53:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because I suppose it's good for a laugh, though it's 100% piffle.

I don't know if I'm misreading how you meant this, but from the way that's written, it looks like you joined in to ridicule it.

Look, afew, I will never, ever tell you to believe in astrology, nor will I tell you to stop personally thinking of it as piffle. But the open threads, and even some diaries, have extolled the virtues of such topics as alcohol, drugs, ayurveda, kittens, road trips, Leicester, cars, gardens, and Harry Potter, and I can guarantee you that anyone reading that sentence recoiled internally and thought, "But there's nothing wrong with that topic!"

That's my point; as annoying as astrology is to you, it's not annoying to others, and a topic that you like to discuss might annoy others (I rejoice in kittens, but there's probably at least one ETer who can't stand the sight of them). So please realize that it's somewhat unrealistic to try to prevent most topics from being discussed, especially by deciding if they fall in the realm of science. I'm trying to be careful how I phrase that because I know you're pretty much just expressing an opinion, but others are going to have their opinions too.

I don't know if I'm being clear or just confusing the situation more, but mmmm has a good point with the drug diaries and threads. Not everyone here is thrilled with those, I'm certainly not. But I've stayed out of them for the most part (I had like one or two posts regarding lung problems) because I know if I tried to stop them there'd be hell to pay. No one would stand for my ridiculing drug use or telling people to stop talking about it. So I'm amazed that astrology elicits the response it does (you've been relatively calm, but I've gotten a couple of rather nasty replies in earlier diaries).

by lychee on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 06:22:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Astrology doesn't annoy me, lychee, and I didn't join in to ridicule it. When I say I think it's piffle (paraphrasing Sven's "poppycock"), I mean I don't believe in it. And it is a belief system (for some).

If I'd thought we shouldn't be talking about it in an open thread, I'd have said so much sooner. Of course there are heaps of topics that are discussed in OTs, and I can't think of an occasion when I have spoken against any of them.

But this spat today began when I discussed with Sven his response to Jerome. I think ET has other priorities than discussing astrology. That's an overall view, not a criticism of this particular open thread.

BTW, I think you can perfectly well argue that drug use shouldn't be discussed here (in a manner that "extols its virtues", as you say). You might find yourself supported in surprising quarters.

Thanks for your thoughtful comment.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 06:40:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In my definition, is the examination of phenomena and the construction of theories about these phenomena that show internal and external relevance or correction to existing knowledge, and that can be universally verified.

Science is always in flux. It is often wrong. It is always being improved. It is the work of scientists to improve our understanding.

Poetry is not science.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 09:53:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What effect will it have on ET's overall image?

We've got an open thread with pictures of stilletto races and crop circles, and you think astrology is the only thing that's gonna make people question our reputation?

by lychee on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:30:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The question is not the discussion in this thread, it's whether astrology os a serious future subject for ET.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:39:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
you sound like an intellectual snob.  are you?
by zoe on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:43:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You sound like you enjoy picking fights with front-pagers. Do you?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:55:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
oh the front pagers.  excuuuuse me.  I didn't realize there were two classes of people here.n  I think that must be one of the most arrogant comments I have ever read on any blog.  

as for your question, the answer is no.  I doubt I will ever pick a fight with Bob or Fran.

by zoe on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:58:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and stiletto race heels are fun and there's nothing wrong with them

it's very paternalistic to be cherry picking topics like this and deciding which are ok and which are "not good for our reputation"

a very good way to hurt people's feelings and lose contributors

I also apologize for the comments about the discussion about drugs.  If anyone wants to talk about that, I am not the arbiter of good taste, and it's as valid as anything I have to say.  I was lashing out and that's not right.  

men shaving their privates on the other hand ....

by zoe on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:40:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and nothing wrong with crop circles either.
by zoe on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:59:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Definitely not (and to ThatBritGuy, I wasn't trying to go after you or your crop circle photo either).
by lychee on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 06:27:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hi people, I love you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So could you please exhale deeply and then count to ten. :-)

I lkove it, when people love to disagree - but I think we had enough. In the end we are just a big ET family! and I guess there are disagreements in every family.

And I hope your statement about not picking a fight with me holds true, mmmmm. :-)

Oh, and lychee this comment is not for you personally, I think it just fits in well in this place. :-)

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 06:05:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
of course.  your name holds a lot of weight with me.

you would never judge people that way either.  

by zoe on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 06:11:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We all love you too Fran!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope you didn't think the comment about stilletto races was directed at you, either-- I was just using it as an example.

by lychee on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 06:25:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I feel that on the open thread you have to "let it all hang out." (unless it's unnecessarily disgusting or demeaning)

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:47:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Someone's rather grumpy for having spent a week at the beach...

I know there's no sense in telling you to chill out.  Or in pointing out the long list of less than intellectually sound material you have posted on such threads in the past.  So let's just agree that there are many other diaries and stories to read here if you are in the mood for something more cerebral or reality-based.  We're never all going to share the same interests or agree on what is worthy of discussion.  But I'm pretty sure that censoring otherwise harmless banter is not the solution to that problem.  Learning to peacefully co-exist, on the other hand...

And if the OT is now off limits for silly banter, I'd like to offer up my Odds and Ends series as a safe refuge for anyone wanting to talk about anything they like.  :)

And as for the impact discussion of astrology may have on the credibility of the site, I wouldn't worry very much.  Most comparable blogs have a healthy dose of silliness accompanying the serious news, debates, initiatives, etc. they exist to promote.  I suspect it will remain that way until we are all replaced with robots.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 12:37:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My birthday is Dec.8 and I'm a Sagittarius. What that means I have no idea; I'm totally dumb about astrology. I was born in 1936 so I'm a rat in the Chinese calendar.
That must be evident because a lot of people have said to me "you rat" during my lifetime.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:22:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What kind of small business were you involved in then?

:)

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:24:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
rats are real sex maniacs.  
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:29:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not 71 year old rats.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:31:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought that was who they invented Viagra for
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:34:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It doesn't make you a sex maniac. It just makes you competent.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:56:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well the will is already there, especially in rats, so it helps with the way
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:57:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And their sexual behaviour is switchable from frmale to male by flipping a switch.

http://tomroud.blogspot.com/2007/08/le-cerveau-t-il-un-sexe.html

(has links to rat "scientific" p0rn)

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:35:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:37:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Laurent . How do you have time to find all of these articles? No wonder there are no sub-prime loans in France. The bank employees are all on the internet and no one has time to write any mortgages.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:59:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I (hopefully) do not work in the loan-granting department and I was on vacation today :).

Tom Roud blog is part of Café des sciences where a few PhD write accessible stuff about various sciences.

As for time, I replaced newspaper/book/CD/movie by blogs and web.

And about "old" sex maniacs:

http://fr.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20070820/tod-emirats-paternite-cb1d00a_1.html

:)

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:24:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They must have a very good "allocation familliale" in Doubai.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:06:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Forgot to add I've no TV.
by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:07:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was called that mostly in personal situations where emotions would often come into play. As I recall (it was so long ago) it was a favorite appellation of my first wife.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:30:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm another rat, mon petit rat.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:32:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
oh, a real infestation of rodents
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:48:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, maybe we can arrange a joint birthday fete at Chez Pradel in December.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:08:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Rodents only?

Or what other animals could we invite?

(Oh, but I'm not an archer, btw, just a rat...)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:23:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm a pig...in Chinese astrology.
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:46:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Rabbit or cat, depending if it's straight Chinese, or Vietnamese variant.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:57:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry afew. Confusing my astrologies. We'll have to change that to January. 2008 is the next year of the rat.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:02:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mine is on Thursday, so that's two cakes for everyone this week, please.
Luke and I went to London last week, and he continued on back to the US for some grad-schooling. Maybe I shall have some more occasions to write comments now, with my abundant hubby-free spare time?
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:01:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
so does that make you a Leo or a Virgo?

and happy bd

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:07:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Leo. Though I've heard from those with more interest in these things that I'm really on the 'cusp', and therefore have some characteristics of each. According to astrology.com:
The Leo/Virgo is a curious mixture of introverted and extroverted tendencies, modesty and flamboyance, and a capacity to see both the largest and the smallest picture in every situation. They are practical and logical, and extremely creative. Virgo and Virgo cusps are skilled at seeing all sides of a situation. In this way, Virgo exemplifies the mutable quality assigned to it. Leo and Leo cusps hold strong, steady opinions and have a strong ability to see their projects through to the end. In this way, Leo exemplifies the fixed quality assigned to it. Leo/Virgos are good businesspeople because of their methodical attention to detail and their ability to stick with a practical and organized routine. They are good organizers, and they tend to be popular, even inspiring.

Yes! I really do think I am both flamboyantly modest, and modestly flamboyant!
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:17:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, let's just say your hair colour was a clue to flamboyance.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:20:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So, are you still in London or back in Switzerland ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:12:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nope, back in Suisse.
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:21:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Happy Birthday to you too!
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:05:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Welcome back, someone!!!  Send hugs to L. for me.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:50:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Me too! (On thursday I mean)

Not that I should be surprised at how many August birthdays there are anymore, but there are a lot.

by R343L (reverse qw/ten.cinos@l343r/) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:13:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well happy bd to you, you Leo you!
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:16:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
more cake please!
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:21:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Happy Birthday!
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:01:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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