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That is one of the most annoying features of the Scoop software.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 01:16:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That and the fact that it can reorder the posts in certain circumstances.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 01:55:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I presume it reorders according to how you have set up your display preferences. So when you first come to a page with new posts on it, it is in one order - but when the page is refreshed, so there are no comments marked as new, the order changes.

Only the High Priests really know how it works, and being HPs they are going to keep it to themselves ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 02:53:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it reorders posts so that the threads with the most ratings in total are moved up to the top. so you can put a rating on several posts and find that whole thread has shot up to the top of the page.

I just think this is how it works, but I havent tried anything to test this as rating a pile of posts to move a thread up, then derating it could end up with a pile of people offended as they got 2's while I scratched my curiosity Itch.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 03:41:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Go to your user settings, choose Comment Settings.

The second set as you look down the list is titled:

The following are comment type and order options.

The second choice, Sort, offers two drop-down menus, the first of which concerns how comments are sorted according to ratings. If you select "Ignore ratings" the thread won't be reordered after a rating is given. If you change settings, don't forget to save (bottom of page).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 04:41:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 04:54:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It doesn't take long to take a look at your user settings for yourself. No need for High Priests.

A ;) at the end of a line doesn't necessarily make it either funny or astute.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 04:47:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There is no useful explanation of user display settings that I can find. Perhaps I am an iDiot.

I do insist on user friendliness - for even the most casual user. My reference to High Priests was addressed to all keepers of information, not FPs specifically.

A while back I spent some time rewriting the ratings explanation in the New User Guide, which I posted in a discussion with DoDo about same. No-one took any notice.

I'd be happy to complete that writing task if it were deemed useful, but I cannot do anything about implementing it.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 02:44:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you knew the answer to ceeb's questioning, you could have given it. But you appear to have preferred to bounce off it in order to make a "point".

My reference to High Priests was addressed to all keepers of information, not FPs specifically.

I know what you would say in answer to that.

Perceptions...

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 03:10:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But where is the explanation of user display settings?

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 03:18:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It should now be clear that your High Priest comment was indeed a swipe at front-pagers, not high priests in general as you most lamely pretend...

I agree the existing explanations are inadequate for people who don't have much of a clue. But I responded in the context of a subthread that features IT professionals (literally or as near as) complaining about the software in such a way that it was clear they hadn't bothered to figure out for themselves things it would be easy for them to do. I, btw, don't have access to any manual or guide, and just looked at the settings page for myself.

I don't know about the ratings guide you wrote. Can you find it?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 04:27:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Lamely or not, you have just proved my point.

I'll email you the guide. If you think it is an improvement, I will complete it.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 04:34:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Damn, I didn't mean for my inherrant laziness to cause fractiousness between you two esteemed gentlemen.

In this case though I do plead blindness, I had looked at the setings page and just not noticed that the  three sets of words were in fact clickable tabs, so just hadn't found the settings.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 05:41:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think you caused it, and the fractiousness is minor anyway...

And neither do I mean be derogatory to anyone who might have found things out for themselves but didn't. I could have said RTFM but then Sven would (rightly) say "Where is the FM?"

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 05:52:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Think no more of it. You should know, of all people, that Leicestrians are obstinate buggers.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 06:08:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And your point was..?

Got your email. Thanks.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 05:42:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My point was that 'who knows how it really works' (display settings) because the information is not there (or obvious) in the New User Guide.

"I agree the existing explanations are inadequate for people who don't have a clue" Well I am one of those who don't have a clue (except learning by trial and error). I also seek to represent lots of others who don't have a clue about IT, but can still write jolly good stuff.

Let's not continue with this, it is a waste of effort to defend the untenable on either side. But I hope the little debate this has thrown up would be a spark to improving the user friendliness of ET. We can all contribute to that - but we can't all implement such improvements...

<at this juncture I am loathe to include a smiley that might be regarded as non-astute, so I'll just end with the esoteric three dots that indicate a thought left in mind of the reader>

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 06:06:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Agreed.

Three dots can look awfully like a trail of rabbit shit...

(Where's that damn smiley when you need it?)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 06:14:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
8-D...

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 06:16:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No kidding - I didn't even see the blue links in the preference page until now. And I've been registered since 2005!

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 06:15:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It took me a while even after I'd been told they were there.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 06:17:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Any user-interface specialists in the house?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 06:22:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not me, but surely it wouldn't be too difficult to make them a bit more distinct? Why not go with the whole tabesque/buttonesque theme you've already got going in there?

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 06:31:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You clearly haven't looked at the guts of the SCOOP software.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 06:34:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A fair point, but unless SCOOP has been run through the mother of all code obfuscation schemes, it can't be an insurmountable task.
Anyway, it was just a suggestion.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 07:00:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
aka PERL

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 07:05:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My sincerest condolences.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 07:11:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Electric Someone appears to be our resident shell guru. (what with Colman channelling his energies elsewhere for the present)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 07:41:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I had no idea the option existed.

I don't find jumping comments a major cause of sleep loss, and I think it's more important for newbies to know how posting/reading/rating work.

But there are a few of these expert-level features that could be tagged more clearly.

Re: Scoop - it may be awful, but (as long as you speak English) it works more or less out of the box. Creating an equivalent from scratch, even using an existing CMS framework, is going to take months or even years.

Limited occasionally awkward functionality is better than none at all, IMO.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 09:27:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
SCOOP [or, rather, our own expectation of needing a relatively small amount of effort to make it work] has already contributed to aborting two ET spinoffs: Spanish and French.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 09:45:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That was the 'As long as you speak English' caveat.

I'd guess it's not impossible to create a localisation-friendly version with language-specific elements grouped intelligently for easy tweaking. But it's a significant development effort.

The problem is that I'm not convinced any of the alternatives are friendlier for non-English localisation.

One option is to park the non-English Scoop project on SourceForge and open it up to interested developers. This should be quicker than trying to do it all in-house with limited experience and resources.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 10:14:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I found that my ultrasonic, panoramic keyboard gave me a real smiley face by typing "((:"

But I guess it doesn´t translate here, so here is a lefty smile:  (-:  

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 06:33:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Damn, and I thought that was a righty Finn - one of the original Seven Brothers with pudding-basin haircut and only two teeth remaining.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 07:43:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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