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Explicitly:  "Community, Politics, Progress"

Beyond that, it is true that most members value respect, civility, intellectual rigour and the free exchange of ideas.  Not all but most.  And those who do not sometimes find another place to go, but sometimes they stick around and eventually come to embrace those values themselves.  Not because anyone tells them to, not because it's a requirement, not because it's "who we are," but because they see it in action, often successfully, and appreciate the kind of atmosphere it engenders.

Once you start compiling a list of "our values," we start defining ourselves against others, closing them out.  I think it's more constructive to leave the door open and address/debate/agree to disagree on certain "values" as the issue of them arises.  Not only does it create a interesting discussion, but it also forces you to come back and repeatedly reassess or defend your "values."  And doing that can be a great learning experience.

Not to mention that I may not share a certain value with one person (perhaps on the issue of spirituality) but may enjoy great solidarity with them regarding something else (human rights issues.)  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 12:00:05 PM EST
Once you start compiling a list of "our values," we start defining ourselves against others, closing them out. I think it's more constructive to leave the door open and address/debate/agree to disagree on certain "values" as the issue of them arises. Not only does it create a interesting discussion, but it also forces you to come back and repeatedly reassess or defend your "values." And doing that can be a great learning experience.

I couldn't agree more. We are defining our values "chemin faisant".

BTW, poemless, I think I'm too often agreeing with you. Couldn't we find a topic about which we might savagely flame each other? Apart from Putin's sex-appeal...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 02:51:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BTW, poemless, I think I'm too often agreeing with you. Couldn't we find a topic about which we might savagely flame each other?

Theory 1.  You've gone and developed a crush.  Eventually you will come to your senses and see me for the deeply flawed and irritating person I really am, and you will snap out of it.  Until then, you will either agree with me profusely or look for ways to create unnecessary but exciting friction between us (matters over which we can "savagely flame each other.")  

Theory 2.  You're just brilliant and right about everything ... except Putin.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 03:19:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Theory 2 has been empirically validated many times... except regarding Putin

However, these theories do not preclude each other, so we have to set up an experiment to validate or invalidate theory 1...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 03:48:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You need an experiment to invalidate Theory 1?  What do you suggest?

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 03:53:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Using your own words: to look for ways to create (unnecessary but) exciting friction between us...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 04:18:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You see, this is why I feel like we can't really discuss "values" with any moral authority.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 04:34:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and what has "exciting friction" got to do with a lack of moral authority?

This could be the beginning of a beautiful relationship

And we saw it developing here first folks!

Bookmark this page - in marks the initiation of an interesting new synthesis in ET values...

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 04:47:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, Frank, the romance!

Once a boy told me he loved me, and I accused him of ruining a perfectly good evening.

I have no idea why you need to know that.  But you do.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 05:21:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
poemless:
Oh, Frank, the romance!

Once a boy told me he loved me, and I accused him of ruining a perfectly good evening.

I have no idea why you need to know that.  But you do.  

Did you think I was about to propose?

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 09:04:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I never pretended to have any moral authority. Amoral authority, however...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 04:48:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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