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since environmental destruction is caused by a civilization which doesn't know itself, nor its relationship to its surroundings
This is a sentimental and idealized version of how life on this planet operates. The earth was not "in balance" before we arrived - it was the scene of intense, slow moving (by our point of view) warfare between all species on the planet, the same as it has been since there were enough life forms present on the planet such that resources could be considered to be scarce. We're doing no more and no less than playing that game. At worst, we'll be the first species on this planet to cause a mass extinction and decomplexification of life (as opposed to the usual comets / radiation / super-volcanoes). At best our self-awareness gives us a chance to live longer than the average species on this planet, and during our time here, reduce suffering and increase happiness among ourselves and other species. We've achieved more in the latter category than we give ourselves credit for, but overall we're very much on track for the ecocide scenario.
The previous paragraph is in a style I use to attempt a less anthropocentric view of the universe. Just channeling Dawkins, really, minus that quick spiritual departure. Getting back to your entry:
What rearrangement? I make vague guesses. I try to find what we can know or learn about people who lived sustainably. What did they think? How did they think? Example here and here. Surely this example is not reachable by us, being too fragile under external hostility, which is one constant of modern life, but it can at least open our mental field.
Sustainability doesn't exist. Not in the way we think of it. Sustainability implies permanence, which is impossible, at the most fundamental level because the universe itself is not sustainable. The concept needs to have time incorporated into it as a variable. Rather than asking "is this system sustainable" the question should be "for how long will this set of initial conditions be stable?" after we have considered ways to increase robustness of the system to withstand dynamic changes in external conditions. To be able to ask this honestly requires us to come to terms with the mortality of our species, which may be harder to come to terms with than the inevitability of our own deaths, because all self-aware humans have knowledge of this inevitability forced upon them, whereas the death of our species is an intellectual concept that can be ignored if desired.
Studying hunter-gatherers to determine how they pulled off their sustainable societies is a flawed premise, because their societies were not sustainable. [To be fair, I think you implied this with your "too fragile under external hostility" qualifier.] Their societies weren't sustainable because they were killed by competitors with other ideas. We also must come to terms with this. It means that violence must be a strong component of sustainability. Therein lies an incredibly difficult balance that requires something far greater than mere policy to achieve.
The simplified (current) concept of sustainability is the search for utopia: we create a set of initial conditions (some theoretical perfect policy with perfect enforceability) and we as a species live happily forever. Colman and Migeru often say that one of our fundamental flaws is our inability to understand feedback loops. Our simplified version of sustainability is a nearly perfect demonstration of that.
I wrote a stream of consciousness diary on this topic a while back that might be worth reading again.
you are the media you consume.
(and since it might interest Bruce, it seems only question marks on a comment subject aren't accepted...) Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
At worst, we'll be the first species on this planet to cause a mass extinction and decomplexification of life (as opposed to the usual comets / radiation / super-volcanoes).
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: Oxygen Catastrophe
When evolving life forms developed oxyphotosynthesis about 2.7 billion years ago, molecular oxygen was produced in large quantities. The plentiful oxygen eventually caused an ecological crisis, as oxygen was toxic to the anaerobic organisms living at the time.
Great comment, by the way. The reference to the ultimate mortality of the species reminds me of Asimov's The Last Question. We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
I thought about including it, but I tend to give up on googlepedia after 30 seconds, and I hadn't heard the term "oxygen catastrophe" before.
To nitpick a little, it was likely caused by a single taxon, unless photosynthesis was evolved indepedently by disparate organisms. We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
Reasons for the late Devonian extinctions are still speculative. Bolide impacts are dramatic triggers of mass extinctions. In 1969, Canadian paleontologist Digby McLaren suggested that an asteroid impact was the prime cause of this faunal turnover, supported by McGhee (1996), but no secure evidence of a specific extra-terrestrial impact has been identified in this case. Needless to say, there are some extinction spikes during the period, and the Alamo bolide impact in Nevada, United States, and Woodleigh crater in Australia are believed to be candidate trigger impacts for some of these events. The "greening" of the continents occurred during Devonian time: by the end of the Devonian, complex branch and root systems supported trees 30 m (90 ft) tall. (Carbon locked in Devonian coal, the earliest of Earth's coal deposits, is currently being returned to the atmosphere.) But the mass extinction at the Frasnian-Famennian boundary did not affect land plants. The covering of the planet's continents with photosynthesizing land plants may have reduced carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere. Since CO2 is a greenhouse gas, reduced levels might have helped produce a chillier climate. A cause of the extinctions may have been an episode of global cooling, following the mild climate of the Devonian period. Evidence such as glacial deposits in northern Brazil (located near the Devonian south pole) suggest widespread glaciation at the end of the Devonian, as a large continental mass covered the polar region.[3] Massive glaciation tends to lower eustatic sea-levels, which may have exacerbated the late Devonian crisis. Because glaciation appears only toward the very end of the Devonian, it is more likely to be a result, rather than a cause of the drop in global temperatures.
The "greening" of the continents occurred during Devonian time: by the end of the Devonian, complex branch and root systems supported trees 30 m (90 ft) tall. (Carbon locked in Devonian coal, the earliest of Earth's coal deposits, is currently being returned to the atmosphere.) But the mass extinction at the Frasnian-Famennian boundary did not affect land plants. The covering of the planet's continents with photosynthesizing land plants may have reduced carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere. Since CO2 is a greenhouse gas, reduced levels might have helped produce a chillier climate. A cause of the extinctions may have been an episode of global cooling, following the mild climate of the Devonian period. Evidence such as glacial deposits in northern Brazil (located near the Devonian south pole) suggest widespread glaciation at the end of the Devonian, as a large continental mass covered the polar region.[3] Massive glaciation tends to lower eustatic sea-levels, which may have exacerbated the late Devonian crisis. Because glaciation appears only toward the very end of the Devonian, it is more likely to be a result, rather than a cause of the drop in global temperatures.
This is a sentimental and idealized version of how life on this planet operates. The earth was not "in balance" before we arrived - it was the scene of intense, slow moving (by our point of view) warfare between all species on the planet, the same as it has been since there were enough life forms present on the planet such that resources could be considered to be scarce.
Go tell it to the bacteria in your stomach gut.
... adding that these are still morally loaded frames. The Dawkins you channel may be less anthropocentric, but he anthropomorphises with the best of them.
aspiring to genteel poverty
Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution is a book by Peter Kropotkin on the subject of mutual aid, written while he was living in exile in England. It was first published by William Heinemann in London in October 1902. The individual chapters had originally been published in 1890-96 as a series of essays in the British monthly literary magazine, Nineteenth Century. Written partly in response to Social Darwinism and in particular to Thomas H. Huxley's Nineteenth Century essay, "The Struggle for Existence," Kropotkin's book drew on his experiences in scientific expeditions in Siberia to illustrate the phenomenon of cooperation. After examining the evidence of cooperation in animals, "savages," "barbarians," in medieval cities, and in modern times, he concludes that cooperation and mutual aid are as important in the evolution of the species as competition and mutual strife, if not more so.
Written partly in response to Social Darwinism and in particular to Thomas H. Huxley's Nineteenth Century essay, "The Struggle for Existence," Kropotkin's book drew on his experiences in scientific expeditions in Siberia to illustrate the phenomenon of cooperation. After examining the evidence of cooperation in animals, "savages," "barbarians," in medieval cities, and in modern times, he concludes that cooperation and mutual aid are as important in the evolution of the species as competition and mutual strife, if not more so.
Of course, MillMan's way of putting it as species competing with each other is misleading and too narrow. Say, lions don't compete with gazelles. *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
Anything that can cut through the willful ignorance of this civilization is to the good.
If you followed that link, you know those people had no "competitors" until some neo-lib businessman decided to cut down the (adjacent) rainforest for cash.
Ascribing simple crime to "Darwinian evolution" does not impress me overmuch. The Fates are kind.
those people had no "competitors" until some neo-lib businessman decided to cut down the (adjacent) rainforest for cash.
Exactly. Their society was sustainable up until someone with superior technology showed up and destroyed it. Explain to me why we can dismiss this (wars of conquest) when looking for ways to create a sustainable world.
It is unfortunate and sad when sustainable peoples fail to evade this Engine of Death. For in fact, the continuation of life will be possible only if they learn how to persist. Some may actually be doing that but here I hold my tongue.
For those of us who are already part of this Death Trip, we first have to decide if we want out of it or not, and secondly what that entails. It is all a gamble anyway: It may not be possible. But if it is, it is the one thing that would actually be worth doing.
Our "superior technology" is a delusion. Our whole way of life is a delusion--a drug binge that ends in the morgue.
Don't you understand? We have already LOST your Darwinian war of all against all, by choosing to fight it. The bacteria in your gut are superior to you: They will outlive you, and all humans. The Fates are kind.
A little furry Corporate animal is busily consuming all the Dinosaur eggs. The partnership-based entities I talk about are emerging because they "out compete" the existing corporates.
How? Because they do not have to pay a return to "rentiers".
They surround the cancerous cells and assimilate them... "The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson
On a more serious note: hunter-gathering lifestyle is not sustainable on a longer timeframe in the sense that the rise of a technological civilisation from it is possible. Hunter-gatherers weren't susptainable on a century timespan because they knew the danger, it's more they didn't knew how to be wasteful on a scale that it didn't just affect fellow humans, but the whole of the biosphere. *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
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