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Doctors Strangelove everywhere | 61 comments (61 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: Doctors Strangelove everywhere (none / 1)
And let's not pretend that there are circumstances in which the premptive use of nuclear weapons is justified.

I don't recall saying there were such circumstances.  I'm opposed to preemption, period, but you seem to be making an argument for it on North Korea.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 at 07:57:24 AM EST
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Re: Doctors Strangelove everywhere (none / 0)
I am.

Just because it's an option, need not mean that it be exercised.  

What I do believe is that it's extremely dangerous for the North Koreans to do for nuclear weapons what they've done for missiles.

Put them on the market for the highest bidder.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 at 08:23:15 AM EST
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Re: Doctors Strangelove everywhere (4.00 / 3)
I'll answer by saying this:  Find me the North Koreans selling nukes on the market, and I'll get behind taking out their nuclear capacity.  But, personally, I'm mindful of the fact that this is the kind of thing the Bush administration was telling me before it invaded Iraq.  And it's the kind of thing Hillary Clinton was telling me when she was being questioned about the Kyl-Lieberman Amendment on Iran (before the NIE blew her triangulating garbage out of the water).  It's going to be difficult to convince me that the North Koreans are actually doing this, because surely they know they'd get caught, and because I have no reason -- not one -- to believe a God-damned word these people tell me.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 at 08:42:05 AM EST
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Re: Doctors Strangelove everywhere (none / 0)
The North Koreans have no problem selling missiles to many, many states.

In 2002, the Spanish ship SS Navarra, stopped a North Korean freighter of the coast of Somalia with 43 Scud missiles bound for Yemen.

They have no concern for the impact of their proliferation of missile technology, and only want to generate cold, hard cash that the can't in any other way.

For the love of all that it holy, they smuggle narcotics into developed countries using diplomatic pouches, and sell it to local dealers.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 at 09:30:08 AM EST
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Re: Doctors Strangelove everywhere (4.00 / 2)
ManfromMiddletown:
In 2002, the Spanish ship SS Navarra, stopped a North Korean freighter of the coast of Somalia with 43 Scud missiles bound for Yemen.
And then the US told them to let the ship go on its merry way.


We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 at 09:32:43 AM EST
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Re: Doctors Strangelove everywhere (none / 1)
Yes.

Because Yemen is offically an ally, and it wasn't the smoking gun that the Bush White House was hoping for.

Now missiles are not particularly useful without a nasty payload, and high explosive isn't that nasty.  Biological weapons are hard to disperse.  Chemical weapons have a similiar problem, and do nothing to undermine enemy infrastructures, having use in being a terror weapon or against enemy forces.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 at 11:51:18 AM EST
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Re: Doctors Strangelove everywhere (none / 1)
Or maybe because the US had authorised the deal beforehand, which would mean North Korea, while evil, still serves US policy.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 at 12:02:12 PM EST
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Re: Doctors Strangelove everywhere (4.00 / 2)
His point is well taken if you accept his premise.  I simply don't accept the premise that the North Koreans have the cajones to sell nukes.  We'd undoubtedly find out about it, and the result is easy enough to figure: No more North Korea.

In my view, it's all fear-mongering.  And, as I said, I don't believe a word any of these hawks tell me.  It's just sad that this nonsense has polluted our side of the aisle.  The Bush Doctrine has got to go, and it's absolutely shameful that Democrats are reinforcing it.  (This, more than anything else, is why I'm going to have real trouble showing up on November 4th.)  But, as Bill Maher once said, Americans would eat paint if you spent enough money on advertising.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 at 01:55:30 PM EST
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Re: Doctors Strangelove everywhere (none / 1)
Now China might have something to say about the Existence of North Korea - or have we all forgotten the Korean War?

Ignoring that - the bravado about punishing North Korea for selling Nukes is simply that - unless one is willing to risk the quite likely possibility that if they have nukes to sell, they have made a certain amount of effort to safe keep nukes for a second strike.

As Sibel Edmonds as point out - forget about N. Korea when it comes to selling nuclear secrets. Pay attention to a country far closer to home - the United States.

aspiring to genteel poverty

by edwin (eeeeeeee222222rrrrreeeeeaaaaadddddd@@@@yyyyaaaaaaa) on Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 at 02:04:34 PM EST
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Re: Doctors Strangelove everywhere (4.00 / 2)
Missiles are a whole different beast from nukes.

And their narcotics smuggling wouldn't be an issue if we weren't so concerned about policing other people's drug use.  We could bankrupt them on that front at a moment's notice by ending just one of our many stupid wars, but I'm in the minority on that sort of thing, unfortunately, while the majority seems content to do the same things over and over expecting different results.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 at 10:06:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Doctors Strangelove everywhere (4.00 / 2)
What? North Korea is interfering with Europe and the US's monopoly on arms trade to evil dictatorships?

How dare they!

aspiring to genteel poverty

by edwin (eeeeeeee222222rrrrreeeeeaaaaadddddd@@@@yyyyaaaaaaa) on Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 at 10:22:19 AM EST
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Doctors Strangelove everywhere | 61 comments (61 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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